Imidacloprid   Edward Frank   Jan 30, 2007 17:09 PST  Hello, I looked over the selection of bug killers at Wal-mart today. Only two products from Bayer had imidacloprid in them. Bayer Advanced Garden Tree and Shrub Insect Control is a 32 oz bottle that contains 1.47% imidacloprid. It is meant to be diluted and poured around the base of the tree with a sprinkling can. The bottle is $18.28 I am wondering if this type of application would be effective, and what the dilution ration should ideally be?   I understand it would be more expensive than the generic chemical. One thing I am wondering about is the tendency of imidacloprid to bond with humus under hemlock trees. Could you dig through the humus layer into the substrate and apply it there instead? You have mentioned generic imidacloprid powder under the names ZENITH 75 WSP INSECTICIDE, TOUCHSTONE 75 WSP INSECTICIDE, Quali-Pro Imidacloprid 75WSB, etc. Are there limits to who may sell these products or purchase them? Ed Frank RE: Imidacloprid   Will Blozan   Jan 30, 2007 18:00 PST  Ed, I have heard of good to excellent results from Bayer Tree and Shrub Insect Control. The dosage is the equivalent of the highest dosage that can be applied via the powdered version that I use in my business. It is expensive, with one bottle treating only a 10" diameter tree. This equates to ~$1.90 per diameter inch (with tax) versus ~ $.80 per inch for the other products you mentioned. The biggest complaint I have heard is the extraordinary amount of water they recommend mixing the solution in. I don't quite see the need for so much water but then again, I don't use the product myself. In NC, anyone can buy the other products, which are a powder, at an agricultural insecticide dealer. As long as you are not applying the product for profit you can buy and apply without a pesticide applicator's license. The studies I have read indicate that hemlock roots are very shallow and will exploit the upper layers of organic material so a topical or shallow application is best. I have seen 4.5 years+ control of HWA from one soil drench application of imidacloprid at the median rate on the label. Obviously there was no need to apply below the surface, although all my applications now are just below the surface in the organic layer under the loose duff. Will RE: Imidacloprid   Doug Bidlack   Jan 30, 2007 22:29 PST  Ed and Will, I think the Bayer product is what my mom is using on her White Ash 'Autumn Purple' and Black Locust 'Purple Robe' for emerald ash borers and locust borers. The white ash was never touched, so I can't say much except that the tree is still alive in a sea of dead ashes. The black locust was ravaged the first year after we planted it, but it hasn't been touched since treatment (three years now). Doug RE: Imidacloprid   Brandon Gallagher   Jan 31, 2007 05:51 PST  If you are interested in purchasing imidacloprid for HWA you can contact me at one of the numbers below. Our company has a product, Xytect, in both a 75WSP and 2F (liquid) formulation that is imidacloprid marketed specifically at the tree care market. The largest tree care companies in the country are using it exclusively and the USFS and several state FS are using it this year. As Will said, we can sell both formulations to private citizens as end users, however if you are going to offer treatments as a service you will need a license. Later this spring we will carry a Xytect Infusible which is a injectible formulation that is applied through our new refillable M3 infuser. Check out www.xytect.com for more. Brandon Gallagher Watson Technical Support ISA Certified Arborist MN-4086A Rainbow Treecare Scientific Advancements 2239 Edgewood Ave S Minneapolis, MN 55426 1-877-ARBORIST Re: Imidacloprid   Edward Frank   Jan 31, 2007 17:47 PST  Will and Brandon, Thank you for your replies. I was curious about this particular product. The HWA is not here yet, although it may arrive later this summer or next year. At that time I will likely be buying stuff to treat a dozen plus trees or so in our small lot. Ed Frank Re: Imidacloprid   John A. Keslick, Jr.   Feb 01, 2007 03:30 PST  Are we killing the good guys as well as the bad guys? For an example: Less than 1% of the insects and fungi are harmful to humans. Think about that when you use a product that kills everything. Trees have many associates that address their quality of life. Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Beware of so-called TREE EXPERTS who do not understand TREE BIOLOGY! www.treedictionary.com http://mercury.ccil.org/~treeman/ Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Re: Imidacloprid ,John   wad-@comcast.net   Feb 01, 2007 05:52 PST  John I don't think your way of thinking is crazy, just different. Imidacloprid kills insects that feed on the plants that are treated. It is not a contact insecticide. It is much more friendly to the earth than systemic insecticides of the past. It has a long residual so repeated applications aren't necessary. I treated a copper beech in 2001 for wooly aphids. The population had definitely breeched the threshold, as the honeydew sounded like rain falling from the tree. With one application of Imicloprid into the soil (no non targets were affected by air) it cleared the problem up and they haven't been back. Oils and other contacts do kill everything. Using IPM methods, this seems to be the best choice. Imicloprid does not have fungicidal properties to my knowledge. Scott Re: Imidacloprid   Jess Riddle   Feb 02, 2007 16:39 PST  John, Killing not-target organisms is certainly unfortunately and to be avoided where possible. However, we need to evaluate our options against alternatives rather than against currently impossible ideals. Yes, imidacloprid will kill organisms that feed on hemlocks in addition to the adelgid, and if applied to the soil, some soil organisms in a localized area. What if we don't treat the hemlocks? The hemlocks will die and the organisms that feed exclusively on them will have no food. The soil will be disturbed over a much broader area; in some ways less intensively and in other ways more intensively. If we had some way to attack the adelgids and only the adelgids that would be wonderful. The beetles are currently the leading hope for that solution, but we haven't yet figured out how to get them to reduce adelgid populations to trivial levels. Jess RE: Hemlock and Adelgid Survey   James Smith   Feb 02, 2007 17:10 PST  It seems obvious even to a layman such as myself that the only effective way to buy time is to use the most effective adelgicide in as wide an area as is possible. Yes, some organisms will suffer in the short-term, but the long-term effects of the extinction of the eastern and carolina hemlock species equals the extinctions of those organisms that are tied exclusively to those trees. I think of our hemlocks every day. Every single day. It sickens and depresses me to think that these trees, among which I have hiked all of my life, will soon become extinct. If it were possible to treat vast areas of hemlocks forests with the effective adelgicide, what are the long-term odds of the eastern and carolina hemlocks surviving an extinction event?   Home