Politics and the ENTS Mission    Fores-@aol.com
   Mar 20, 2004 04:53 PST 
Bob:

I have been reading all of the posts recently on the political stuff that is
flying around.

Because of a serious involvement I have with managing forest understory
plants and a deep interest in forest health, I am getting seriously concerned over
the catastrophic consequences of global trade and the invasion of our
hemisphere by invasive plants, animals and pathogens.

Regularly, I read posts on visits to dying hemlock groves, beech trees dying
from beech bark disease and I often wonder about the magnificence of our now
long gone chestnut trees.

Now, in the central Appalachians we are faced with the possible loss of all
of our ash species from emerald ash borer, arrival of sudden oak death via
illegally transported California nursery stock and movement of the Asian longhorn
beetle into the forest, in addition to the adelgid.

The mission of ENTS is likely to become far more important in terms of
documenting for future generations what was. It will probably take another 30 years
before the general public fully understands what is being lost during the
early part of the third millennium.

For some additional food for thought....check out the following link

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040319075340.htm
The ENTS role amidst other discussions    dbhg-@comcast.net
   Mar 20, 2004 07:59 PST 

Joe:

Each of us must do what he/she must do. My only point is that our list is just not the best place to deal with broad social, environmental, religious, economic, political, etc. issues beyond a few conversations among friends - otherwise it becomes a different list and that would be a big loss. Looked at another way, if the ENTS list morphs into a hot topic discussion forum, it loses its ENTS mission.

   NEFR was the place to discuss forestry issues in an intense way. The SAF list should also be such a place, but it isn't. Alt. Forestry IS a place to do it. Those are the appropriate forums. However, should we steer the ENTS list into a space where we take on social, religious, political, or forest practices, it would be tantamount to discounting any worth of the ENTS mission. Now, that is not a small point I just made. Who values ENTS and why?

   We on the inside don't see the ENTS mission as trivial, hobby-oriented, the abode of naive, new age tree huggers, or just a facade for the "real issues". ENTS is what it is, and more importantly, what it is supposed to be. Nobody else is doing the job that we do, at least not satisfactorily. American Forests has had over 100 years to take on an ENTS-styled mission and hasn't. They plant trees where trees don't naturally grow and support a virtually worthless big tree popularity list. They don't know squat about the forests of the Great Smokies, Joyce Kilmer, Cook Forest, Congaree, etc. Their efforts would have never led to the discovery of a Zoar Valley or investigated the extraordinary growing properties we find in MTSF. They wouldn't have taken on the historical documentation efforts that we've assumed for our forest icons. While I still find that surprising, more importantly, I understand that they aren't going to suddenly switch directions and adopt the ENTS mission. Nor are the professional forestry organizations, which simply couldn't care less. I once found that surprising, but as with American Forests, I came to accept that SAF and others are NOT going to fulfill the ENTS mission. It would interfere with focusing public attention of trees as a commodity. We could consider other organizations, but working down the list one by one, we'd eventually eliminate every single organization that an outsider might think would value the ENTS mission. None have. So, that leaves us. We're about what the narrative on our website states - a pretty noble undertaking IMHO.

   Where we'd love to have your help is in documenting the great sites and exemplary forests photographically. You've got a lot of talent in that department. There are important stories to be told photographically.

Bob
Re: Notice of cancellation of the Forest Summit conference    dbhg-@comcast.net
   Mar 20, 2004 08:36 PST 

Russ:

In our nightmares, many of us see our forests dying. The need for us to document what remains while it still exists may well be the singularly most important ENTS mission, even more important that understanding the why's of growth. For several years Will Blozan and I have had a fixation on documentation. perhaps the reason for that is coming clear.

Bob
RE: Notice of cancellation of the Forest Summit conference    Gary A. Beluzo
   Mar 20, 2004 08:40 PST 

What are trees? Economic resources, renewable fuel, "lumber with bark",
it guess it depends on where you are and what your priorities
are....perhaps we should talk about the "toll treesus".



Gary A. Beluzo
RE: Notice of cancellation of the Forest Summit conference    dbhg-@comcast.net
   Mar 20, 2004 09:05 PST 

Gary:

   You are quite correct to ask these questions and we should ask them more often. Basically, ENTS exists to celebrate, study, and document trees and forests as life forms and natural systems that have value beyond commercial importance to humans as raw materials for wood products. To celebrate, study, and document is our mission. Non-ENTS missions are equally important, but are the province of others or even ourselves when in different garb.

   As ENTS, we should not feel inhibited or reluctant to advocate for our cause. The subtle message from the detractors and the indifferent in the wood products business is that our area of interest represents something more akin to dabbling. Not very serious or to be taken seriously. For them, the real stuff is about product and how it's delivered. No nonsense stuff. Anything else is a diversion and to be tolerated only on occasion.

   Those of us in ENTS should feel no hesitation in pointing out what I said in my prior e-mail about the field of players, i.e. for the mission, we're really the only serious game in town -at least in the East.

   The late Dr. Michael Perlman used to introduce himself as a tree-hugger and proud of it. He wore his genuine affection for trees as a badge of honor. He even embarrassed me at times with his overt displays of affection for trees. Mike was one smart cookie and he was tireless in his efforts to get society to look beyond the mind-numbing product-orientation mindset. Too bad he is no longer with us.

Bob
Re: Notice of cancellation of the Forest Summit conference   Fores-@aol.com
  Mar 21, 2004 08:44 PST 
Gary:

For myself, as a dirt forester whose daily work life is largely spent alone
in the woods with my dogs, I have a profound idea of the sliding value scale
people place on the forest and its contents.

I definitely find myself at an end of the scale where it doesn't seem too
crowded and many of the discussions on ENTS have been informative and have let me know how seriously others love the forest and that I am not alone in my
wonder and awe.   

Although a significant proportion of my yearly income is derived from
executing and overseeing the sale of timber from private woodlands, the depth of my appreciation for a nice patch of ancient forest and all of its' components
continues evolve.

If the losses we are witnessing by the invasion of alien biota were only
economic, life would be simple.

However, the current environmental decline is cascading across the North
American landscape with an increasing ferocity that seems to be compounding itself as newer diseases, pathogens and invasions intersect areas where older
insults have taken hold.

I believe that the ENTS mission of accurate documentation, especially the
maximums of age, size and height will serve as the benchmark others will cite in
decades to come.

I think that the work you guys (please note this is a generic term and not
gender specific) are doing to document trees in our forests is extremely
important and the photographic record will be as significant, interesting and
important a hundred years from now as the photos of historical logging jobs during
the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

However, I would seriously encourage ENTS participants to look more closely
at what lies beneath the canopy of many of these old forests. There is much,
much, much to be learned from the forest floor and its inhabitants (both animal
and vegetable) and the symbiotic relationships that abound. During my years
working in New England, I encountered very few places that were not impacted
by mankind and it was only after I had spent a few years in West Virginia that
I began to fully appreciate the significance of the understory as a part of
the whole forest ecosystem.

I always read with interest the mention of the ground conditions in
everyone's' field reports but there is a tendency to emphasize the woody understory. I know that with some of the places that are being checked for old and large trees, especially in GSMNP and other regions of the Appalachians, ENTS members are often walking through areas of extremely rare plant communities and may often not recognize the significance of what they are seeing.

As we get close to spring and summer, I heartily encourage ENTS documenters
to stop and smell the understory ground as you look for those big trees.
Especially if the land you are trekking through has never seen an axe or plow and
more significantly if it is off a recognized trail and a couple miles off a
decent road. There are some understory plant communities still out there that
are could be as significant in their own way as an undiscovered stand of old
growth California redwood.

American ginseng...it is not timbers' retarded little brother.

Russ Richardson
Re: Notice of cancellation of the Forest Summit conference    dbhg-@comcast.net
   Mar 22, 2004 04:23 PST 

Russ:

   Some of us on the ENTS list see you as an old soul, an advanced, humble spirit, who this time around, has chose a path of exploration and experimenation with balance in the forest. The fact that you focus on the forest floor as well as the canopy speaks volumes. What has also impressed me is your sense of where the ENTS mission needs to be directed in this time of forest suffering. You understand the importance of our historical documentation mission as equal to our scientific research.
   I will admit to you that for a number of years, I have strongly felt that my primary role was to document what we have and its potential while we still have it. With the emerald ash borer on the loose, the Asian longhorn beetle trying to do its worst, and the aphids, adelgids, scales, and moths on the rampage, what chance do our native species have?
   It is hard not to be perpetually pessimistic, but we are definitely in a time of transitioning, of losing native species that have been around for millennia to persistent exotics that are survivors and have the power to overwhelm the landscape. Whether through replacement by exotics or succumbing to disease, or being gobbled by bugs, we're watching native fauna and flora lose the battle.
   It isn't that I think all introduced species are necessarily bad, but rather the rate at which introduced species replace native ones. Consider the invasion of the European earthworms. Who could consider that not to be a problem?
   A major role of ENTS over the next few years must continue to be the capture as much of the historical record as possible. I hope we can get down West Virginia way in the near future.

Bob