Live Oak Modeling Project and Beyond

Live Oak Modeling Project and Beyond	Bob Leverett
	Dec 20, 2007

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TOPIC: Live Oak Modeling Project and Beyond
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/09ff92d1eb833f2a?hl=en
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== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 20 2007 5:44 am
From: dbhguru

ENTS,

The pending live oak modeling project that Larry and I will be undertaking holds promise for wider participation and extension to other species. The baldcypress comes immediately to mind although the longer bole of the cypress presents a problem for those who would be measuring trunk girth. For Ents with an equipment budget, I highly recommend the purchase of a Macroscope 25 from the Ben Meadows Co. The combination of laser rangefinder, clinometer, tape measure, macroscope, and scientific calculator opens up a whole new world of measuring for the tree measuring Ent. As of now, the number of us owning a Macroscope is very limited, but I hope this will change. For those of you possessing the range finder, clinometer, tape measure, and calculator, the macroscope is the next logical purchase. No need to worry about complex mathematics. The select group of us who will write the book on dendromorphometry can do the math. BTW, the group of coauthors includes Lee Frelich, Don Bragg, W
ill Blozan, Gary Beluzo, Dale Luthringer, and yours truly. I'm sure Ed Frank will have an important role in producing the book to include coauthoring if he chooses. I will soon begin on a chapter by chapter draft.

Back to big trees. Will and I have long felt that the largest of the eastern trees deserve special attention from ENTS along the line that BVP gives to the great West Coast conifers. Bob has set the bar extremely high for his trees, maybe higher than we can reach at this point, but I for one, believe that it is time for us to move into bold new measuring space and honor our largest of eastern trees along many lines of comparison. A potential list of the kinds of measurements that make sense for the largest trees follows.

1. GBH
2. Height
3. Average crown spread
4. Trunk volume
5. Limb volume (down to a certain size limb)
6. Projected area of crown cover
7. Longest spread
8. Longest single limb
9. Area of tree's footprint
10. Height at point of major branching

I don't include additional girth measurements as separate items because trunk volume will produce several more girth measurements.

As can be seen, measuring a single tree becomes a project, as well it should be. From the above 10 measurements, of course the traditional champion tree points would be calculated as well as the ENTS TDI points, using the 300 point scale to create comparability with the champion tree formula. However, we could significantly extend the TDI system to include all the above categories (really sticking my neck out). The TDI system then would be based on 1000 points. I'm not foolish enough to think that any of us is going rush right out and begin applying a 1000-point TDI system, but the biggest of the big trees would seem to deserve the attention and it is a guarantee that trees scoring high on the 1000-point system would be truly extraordinary. The 1000-point system could be applied inter-species or intra-species. Actually, it makes sense to apply the TDI system at both levels to provide across species comparisons. This is desired for crowning a single tree as the biggest in the
East, a region, state, etc. regardless of species.

We have struggled with the concept of tree "bigness" in the past. Invariably something came up missing in terms of capturing overall bigness. The labor intensive 1000-point system covers all bases. It accommodates actual physical dimensions and psychological size.

Bob

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 20 2007 5:48 am
From: "Gary A. Beluzo"

Bob:

I think you are on to something...as ENTS we need to develop an Index
that really expresses what kind of an impression a particular tree
makes on us and WHY.
I like your inclusion of projected area of crown cover, longest single
lmb, area of tree's footprint, and height at point of major
branching. These characteristics surely move us toward understanding
the impact that tree geometry has on us.
I have great expectations of the ENTS team.

Gary

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 20 2007 10:57 am
From: Larry

Bob, I talked to a friend at work, he's got a program that I can
post my measurements on. Include a chart, graft with dimensions, maybe
some type of drawing of said tree. I can email the results in excel
and some other format he's got to you! Larry

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 20 2007 11:33 am
From: dbhguru

Gary,

Capturing tree bigness has alluded us to this point mainly because we still hope to adopt a very simple system like the champion tree program formula. But such simpla approaches invariably result in too many tradeoffs having to be made that ignore the complex geometry of trees. ENTS needs to push the envelope. We aren't engaged with the public, so we don't have to make compromises.

Bob

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 20 2007 11:41 am
From: dbhguru

Larry,

Splendid. We're cookin' with gas.

Bob

I decided to use the Ruskin Oak as my first field example for you. Its
located in Ocean Springs, and I would have easy access to the tree.
On our homepage in the Live Oak Project, scroll down to Ocean Springs
Oaks and you'll find the write up and photos of the tree. I traced 3
drawings from the photos now I'll go in the field and get some, cir,
diameters, heights, lengths,etc.

I'm going to climb into the tree
somewhat, but not to the top. I also need to get permission before I
do this, but I don't see that as a problem. Its wet down here so I'll
get to it as soon as possible. I'm really excited about doing this
volume, and can't wait to get the results. Take care Bob, I hope you
get better soon. Happy New Year to everyone! Larry

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 12:04 pm
From: dbhguru@comcast.net

Larry,

Thanks. I look forward to getting rolling on our joint project.

Bob

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TOPIC: Live Oak Volume Study
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/ac86809c35a71b25?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 8:30 am
From: Larry

Bob, Well I went to the tree yesterday and met the owner of the
property, she was excited to hear what we were doing and gave me
permission to come anytime I liked. I got several measurements, Main
trunk- from around 29' GBH to 26' CBH plus there are 5 main limbs that
exceed 4' dia. at 12 lenghts, what a massive tree. I jotted down
several measurments, I know this tree will be somewhere around 3000
cubic feet! Anyway this is quite a challange I'm waiting on my friend
to fix me up with the program to send your the results! Posting a
photo of the Ruskin Oak, on the file page. Larry

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 8:58 am
From: James Parton

Larry,

You can't get no prettier tree than those live oaks! Beautiful
picture!

James P.

There is one called the " Sire " Oak in Columbia SC. Have you visited
that one? I can get there in about 2 1/2 hours from here & plan to go
see it.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 10:16 am
From: Larry

James, Thanks. No I haven't but one day I'll get up that way. James,
there are Hundreds of Large Live Oaks I hope to see them all! They
grow from Virginia to Texas, alot of ground to cover. I know of many
of these Large Live Oaks, I just haven't gotten around to them all
yet! Larry

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