trees and transcendental state   lef   Sep 10, 2003 18:43 PDT  Bob: Speaking of transcendental states caused by trees, you should have seen the 113' black ash Paul Jost, his wife Katie and I measured last Saturday in the Porcupine Mountains. That makes it second to the 114' tree which is currently the tallest accurately measured black ash. Then, on Sunday there was a real surprise, a pocket of very tall hardwoods that we hadn't seen before, because we thought the area had been logged, with a 108' basswood. Then there was the small gently curved valley about 50 feet deep with perfectly straight-trunked, 3 x 100 foot hemlocks 300-500 years old rooted at all different levels on the valley wall high up in the Porkies where I never thought hemlocks would attain such size. This is a place you need to see next time you come out here. The setting is such a work of art you won't even care how tall the trees are. I think Paul will post some pictures from the trip in a few days. Lee Black ash and a new list    Robert Leverett    Sep 11, 2003 05:36 PDT  Lee:     To me your, Paul, and Kate's discovery of the #2 black ash is an important find. A black ash 113 feet in height is nothing to sneeze at. It would stand eye to eye with most of the Connecticut River Valley cottonwoods which have so captured my imagination. That's no mean accomplishment.     Isolated tall trees of a species are fine, but it is so much more interesting when there is a community of them to study. I'm fascinated with how A. basswood and black ash apparently reach maximum development so far north. I think green ash does better over your way also. You once listed species that appear to reach maximum development in the upper Mid-west. Given the weather that you all have, it is amazing that any species would develop to its maximum over/up there.     As we collect more and more data, some of the patterns that will emerge will undoubtedly surprise us and hopefully engender greater respect for species that have suffered in the status department.    Thinking back to species of trees with which I am familiar, I thought it might be interesting to develop a list of the least favorite species of people within a geographical area. Which species of trees do people either least like or take the least notice of and why? In New England, the list might take the form of least noticed. I don't know of any species that people just plain don't like, excepting those people who habitually complain about the messes that trees leave. In the non-noticed department, box elder would rank high. What might be the choices in the upper Mid-west?     I look forward to a return trip to the Porkies. The magic of those mountains and the sheer power of Lake Superior make that region a world apart. Bob Re: Black ash and a new list    Lee E. Frelich    Sep 11, 2003 06:25 PDT  Bob: Box-elder would be in the not noticed category here as well, although it attains a dbh of 4 feet. Black spruce, balsam fir, jack pine, white cedar, black ash, mountain ash, and northern pin oak are also among those species that are only noticed by ENTS members. Lee Black ash and beyond    Robert Leverett    Sep 11, 2003 07:42 PDT  Lee:    I expect that were we to construct a bottom-oriented list for each geographical area, native species that have low value as timber or are rare would float to the top of most lists.    Local species that have low visibility because they are rare in Massachusetts include bur oak. There is a tiny bit of it ocurring naturally in western Massachusetts.    Eastern hemlock is an interesting species to follow, thinking along these lines. Many people love it because of its classic beauty. It is the favorite species of not a small number of people. But as you know timber specialists don't like it. Many refer to it as junk. Either way, the hemlock doesn't go unnoticed. Nor does the red maple. Its gorgeous spring and fall color endear it to a lot of New Englanders, but it is anathema to timber specialists. The red maple is Rhode Island's state tree. The eastern hemlock is Pennsylvania's.     Perhaps we need a category called schizophrenic trees, not because they have dual personalities, but because they divide people up into two groups - lovers and haters of them. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any species that exceed hemlock and red maple in this category.    I bet Colby has an interesting take on this. Bob     Home