| Tuliptree
vs White Pine Growth |
Jess
Riddle |
| Oct
18, 2006 15:51 PDT |
Bob, Russ, other;
In the southern Appalachians, for the first hundred years, I
think
white pine out grows tuliptree in diameter, and to a lesser
extent in
height. On good white pine sites, second growth white pines are
often
three feet dbh and 140' tall. Second growth tuliptrees can
certainly
attain that diameter, but do not due so as often. On a good
site,
140' would not be unusual for a second-growth tuliptree. On
exceptional sites, white pine can reach 180' in under 100 years,
and
we not have confirmed any tuliptrees at that height. 160'
second-growth pines are also more widespread than 160'
second-growth
tuliptrees. On the other hand, more individual tuliptrees will
reach
160' at a given site than will white pines. So, tuliptree grow
fast
in height more consistently than white pine, but may not be
capable of
quite as rapid growth. Good tuliptree sites appear to be far
more
common in the region than good white pine sites. Given the
greater
diameters, I assume white pine also has a slight edge in volume.
After the first hundred years or so, white pine growth seems to
dramatically slow down. Tuliptree also seems to slow down a
great
deal in height growth, but may actually accelerate in volume
growth.
Differences in crown structure could conceivably account for
that
large difference in mid-life volume growth. Once white pine
approaches it's maximum height, it will gradually lose
photosynthetic
area as storms rip off branches. It will have difficulty
replacing
those branches since it does not have epicormic sprouts and must
fill
in areas with reiterations. In contrast. Tuliptrees tend to
start
developing massive branches and very large crowns after their
first
hundred year, so they have the large photosynthetic area
necessary to
support more rapid growth. I haven't seen any hard evidence to
back
up that speculation.
Jess
On 10/13/06, Robert Leverett wrote:
| |
Russ,
Very interesting. I wonder what
the experience of Will, Jess, and
Mike is in North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, and
Georgia for
differential growth rates of the two species.
As you know there is white pine
literally everywhere in New England,
New York, and large areas of Pennsylvania. It is by no
means easy to
gain an accurate understanding of growth rates over say
a couple hundred
years b casually observing pines growth in various
environments across
the landscape, but pictures do eventually emerge.
Finding a
competition-shaped white pine in the diameter class of
48
inches and over is a real challenge throughout the above
mentioned
geographical area. The challnge is great enough that
ENTS has created a
special class of white pines that are in the 12-foot
circumference x
150-foot height class. Pines in this class certainly do
occur, and on a
site that will produce one, if the area of white pines
is sufficiently
extensive, you often get a handful. People tend to
notice the occasional
big one and speak loosely as though they are a more
common feature.
The rarity of pines in
this size class also appears to apply to the
southern Appalachians. Will and Jess have a much better
feel than I do,
so maybe they will comment. By contrast, the number of
tuliptrees in the
12-foot circumference x 150-foot height class in the
southern
Appalachians is truly astounding. This may also have
been true for some
of the forests in Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. The
abundance of big
poplars set me to thinking about comparative growth
rates for the two
species over time in respectively favorable habitat.
I was surprised at your
description of attitudes toward white pine
in West Virginia. Quite a contrast to that of New
England. It is all
very interesting and gives us something to focus our
research interests
on. I still hope to set up a visit to that property in
Whately with the
tulip poplars.
Bob
Fores-@aol.com
wrote:
| |
Bob:
I am really not sure when the poplar will
overtake white pine but I think
that the poplar will outlast the pine in terms
of persistence. Once a white
pine tree suffers major crown damage it seems
like they never fully recover.
Yellow poplar will throw out a whole new top in
just a few years. We had a
major ice storm here in 2003 that devastated the
timber and stripped
the tops out of lots of yellow poplar to the
point that they looked like coarse
telephone poles.
In the same storm many white pines suffered
moderate damage with 40-50%
of their live crown lost. Now, after four
growing seasons the yellow
poplars have mostly recovered to the point where
you have to look for evidence
of the ice damage while most of the white pine
tops still look ratty.
I have seen very little white pine or yellow
poplar that was absolutely
mature but from what I have witnessed poplar
really starts to slow down
in the low 30's in terms of DBH while white pine
will persistently chug along
into the low 40's. It is hard to know how large
white pine could actually grow
on a really good site here because .... WP is
not that common and so many
people here hate the things. I will say that the
highest quality white pine I
have ever seen has been 75 and 80 year old
native WP in central WV....there
is lots of prejudice because WP doesn't saw out
as much clear lumber as poplar.
Russ |
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| Re:
More for Russ |
Fores-@aol.com |
| Oct
19, 2006 06:23 PDT |
Bob
and Jess:
I think that your observations on 100+ year old trees are more
accurate than
simple speculation and I think that your growth tendencies
should be able to
be proven.
What makes ENTS so interesting is the focus on very long term
growth of
trees that extends far beyond the "economic" limits
that most traditional
forestry centers on.
I would tend to agree that the volume growth in older poplar
trees is higher
than white pine.
Although my observations are only based on timber covering a few
hundred
square miles of WV I would like to offer that there is a greater
likelihood of
encountering red oak over 40" DBH (10'+CBH) than a yellow
poplar over 30" DBH
(7.8'+ CBH). In many areas the chance of finding black oak over
10' CBH is
far greater than finding a poplar over 25" DBH.
What is hard to get used to is the occasional situation where
you are deep
in the bottom of a steep-sided cove and encounter an 18"
DBH poplar that is
pushing 140+ feet in height...I have always though that trees
that small in
diameter cannot be so tall but the biological urge to get to
sunlight is a more
powerful force than we may recognize.
Russ |
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