grape vines   ELISABETH BROOK
  Jun 13, 2006 17:58 PDT 

I'm hoping someone can suggest an effective way to get
rid of huge grape vines that have overtaken many trees
in my neighborhood and the surrounding wooded
areas.(western Massachusetts) Many of the trees have
already died from strangulation and loss of light.
Thank you for any help you can give.

Elisabeth
Re: grape vines   Rory Nichols
  Jun 13, 2006 18:23 PDT 

Elisabeth:

Hi, I've never tried to get rid of grapes before (since they are not a
problem here) but have fought English ivy. I would guess girdling the
grape vine--cutting all the way around the trunk of the tree near the
base. Maybe clearing a few feet up the tree's trunk to ensure all
vines are cut with a hand saw and pruners. Let the hot sun take care
of the rest of the vine that is too far up to pull down from the tree.
Sometimes it is hard to locate the main trunk of the vine as it may
"jump" trees. Just be sure to try to cut everything growing up on a
tree. I know I had that problem with ivy. Also with ivy, I could
usually muscle the base of the plant and somehow pull it out of the
ground with some sweat and tools. To be sure I got it all, I would
come back later to see if any new shoots came up. Simply pulling the
base out of the ground may likely not be possible with grapes. In this
case, herbicides may be necessary (to control the base of the plant)
but hopefully not. Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rory
Re: grape vines   fores-@earthlink.net
  Jun 13, 2006 18:34 PDT 

I kind of like grapes, had some giant vines in woods behind my house.
anyway to get rid of them, simply slice through the main vine stem and that
is that.

We made Tarzan swings out of them and they only last so long after having
been cut before finally falling out of the tree.
RE: grape vines   Paul Jost
  Jun 13, 2006 18:40 PDT 

Grape vines were a real problem in my old oak woodlot. Cutting will kill
what is above ground, but the cut stumps should be sprayed with concentrated
Round-Up (about 20% I think), not the predilluted approx. 1% stuff that
they sell for direct spraying on weeds. The same treatment works well on
buckthorn and other invasives. If you don't pull the roots or spray the
"stumps", they will quickly grow back.

Paul Jost
RE: grape vines   fores-@earthlink.net
  Jun 13, 2006 19:26 PDT 

do deer eat them? ones in our woods never seemed to grow back. deer?
RE: grape vines   wad-@comcast.net
  Jun 13, 2006 20:48 PDT 
ENTS

Yep, deer finish off what's left here when we cut them. I only kill the european species if I can identify it. lobed leaves as compared to entire.

I read in an old book written by William Bartram in the 1770's that the grape vine held the canopy together and reduced storm damage in the original forest? Also grape is a very important food source to zillions of critters, Turkey especially.

Scott
Re: grape vines   Fores-@aol.com
  Jun 14, 2006 00:39 PDT 
Elizabeth:

Grapevines are a serious problem in the Appalachians and the easiest way to
kill them is to chop them off about waist high and to chop them again as close
to where they emerge from the ground as possible. The grapes will sprout
from the stump but if there are any deer in the area they will eat the sprouts
like candy because the stems will stay succulent right up until the first
frost.

The best tool for the job is a Swedish brush ax that can be purchased from
almost any forestry supply catalog and the most dangerous tool you can use to
cut grapes is a regular axe.

From hard experience I've learned that Tarzan swinging has its hazards
because many of those vines are holding up hundreds of pounds of debris and
jerking them around like you do if you swing on them can end up in a lot of woody
fras down the back of your neck and shirt, a sore hear or lots worse. I would
not advise cutting grapes without wearing a hard hat.

A minor bit of forestry lore...a mature 2" grapevine can use as much water
as a 24" sugar maple.

Russ
RE: grape vines   Bruce P. Allen
  Jun 14, 2006 07:31 PDT 
Scott,

I would doubt the reduction in storm damage due to grapes (or any
other woody vine).   I published a paper in Torrey in 1997 that
looked at post-hurricane tree mortality and the number of large woody
vines. Trees with 3 or more vines were significantly more likely to
be killed by hurricane winds regardless of size.

Bruce
RE: grape vines - back to Bruce   Robert Leverett
  Jun 14, 2006 07:58 PDT 

Bruce,

Were you able to identify particular physical stresses caused by the
presence of vines during the hurricane or perhaps loss of tree vitality
as the main contributing factor(s)? Were some species of vines more
harmful than others?

Bob
Re: grape vines   Kirk Johnson
  Jun 14, 2006 08:52 PDT 

Like others have already said, I cut them off twice: once as close to the
ground as possible (sometimes you have to follow them around on the ground
to find the end because they lie flat for lengths), and then again as high
as I can reach on the hanging ends. I use a sharp pruning saw (Corona makes
a good one for about $20). The portion left hanging in the tree will quickly
become very dry and brittle and will no longer interfere with the
development of the crown, and will probably disintegrate and fall on it's
own within a few years.

After cutting the vines, I sometimes prune lower limbs off of a tree if they
appear to give the vine an easy "ladder" to grow back later on. A grape vine
can't just climb right up a thick, smooth tree bole like a poison ivy or
English ivy vine can. It sounds to me like you have a severe problem, so I
would consider using the "extra-strength" RoundUp on the vine stumps like
the others suggested. There is also an oily chemical called Garlon-4 that
would be good for doing that, but I don't know if it's available for
residential use. Don't get it on your skin, in your mouth, or in your eyes!

Kirk Johnson
Re: RE: grape vines   brown_-@colstate.edu
  Jun 14, 2006 10:30 PDT 

One way to use concentrated Roundup and minimize exposure to other
plants is to use a paintbrush and paint it on the cut stems or stumps.
It also works real well for poison ivy by painting it on the leaves.

Also, one of the best ways to reduce Amur honeysuckle is to pull out
the first year and young plants early in the spring as they are one of
the first things to leaf out. The larger shrubs usually require a lot
more effort.
RE: grape vines - back to Bruce   Bruce P. Allen
  Jun 14, 2006 13:47 PDT 

Bob,

We couldn't separate cause and effect - it was telling that tree size
wasn't the issue.   This may be a relay ascension issue, vines that
climb smaller trees to get to larger trees. Vines would represent a
physical load on the host trees, increase a trees wind resistance, as
well as negative influences on vigor. But we cant say weather the
tree lost vigor and became easier to colonize or the competition with
vines resulted in reduce vigor or death. I plan to analyze mortality
data from this last winter, I suspect that trees that died had more
vine than the average tree the last time we sampled it.

I suspect that trumpet creeper and grape were more harmful than
poison ivy or Virginia creeper because they colonize the upper canopy
of their host tree and compete directly for light.   Supple jack, a
twining vine, can actually squeeze a tree to death as the tree and
the vine grow.

Bruce
RE: grape vines   Will Blozan
  Jun 14, 2006 19:01 PDT 

Grapes usually are not stranglers- perhaps you have bittersweet. I have had
great results with drilling ~1/3 inch diameter holes partway into the stems
at a downward angle and filling the holes with ~25% Roundup or equivalent.
You will be amazed at the rate at which the holes drain (when in leaf and
growing). This method kills the entire plant. On a stem 3 inches in diameter
I will drill 6-8 holes and refill them a few times.

Will