Cucumber, Oak, and Tuliptrees   Thomas Diggins
  Oct 19, 2006 18:50 PDT 

Hi Ed,

Catching up on ENTS emails...

White oak and cuke are absent and uncommon, respectively, on the
terrace flats where the really tall stuff is found in Zoar Valley.
Therefore, their heights are not at all impressive by Zoar standards.
Both trees are much better represented in the surrounding uplands,
including a number within the narrow strip of old growth that lines
most of the canyon rim.

The tallest Cuke so far is a youngish (80-100 years) tree on one of the
terraces measured to 101.7'. Others on the canyon slopes and
surrounding uplands do not get out of the mid-90s. HOWEVER, I measured
a pair of gnarly old cukes at the confluence of a small feeder stream
with the South Branch gorge (a grad student of mine is working on the
ecology of these feeder brooks), and both exceeded 8' CBH. Not bad.
Although both are very hollow, I managed to extract a complete core
from one at a height of about 8' above the ground. Will would have been
proud of me, as I perched precariously on the slender trunk of a fallen
hemlock resting againts the cuke while reaching above my shoulders with
the corer. Hey, it paid off, and I almost hit the pith (close enough to
use ring curvature to estimate its location). This old cuke was 209
years old at 8' up.

White oak is totally restricted to the surrounding uplands, including
some awesomely gnarled specimens along various eroding hardpan ridges.
There are also a number of wolf-tree-like specimens along the gorge
rim, very squat and girthy and branching low out over the canyon. One
of these just breaks 10' CBH, but proved to be only about 160 years of
age (estimated from an incomplete core). The large overhanging crowns
probably give these trees fast diameter growth, much like farm-edge
trees. However, I anticipate there may be some older, but smaller,
trees within closed canopy. I haven't broken 95' on any white oaks.

Tom


Edward Frank wrote:
 
Russ,

That is an interesting comment about cucumber magnolia versus oaks. At
Cook Forest they are virtuallu neck and neck - Cucumber at 123.1, N
Red Oak at 126.5, White Oak at 127.5 (tallest in NE).   White Oak wins

At McConnel's Mills Cucumber at 131.6 - Tallest in NE (with five others over 
121), N. Red Oak at 123.1, and White Oak at 99.1feet (not
many measured). Cucumber Wins

Fairmont park is similar with N. Red Oak at 135.2, White Oak at 122.3.  
Cucumber was only reported in the most recent measurement by Scott Wade
at 110.8. N. Red Oak Wins

Pennsylvania ststewide we have Cucumber at 131.6 (McConnel's Mills), 
White oak at 127.5 (Cook Forest) and N. Red Oak at 135.2 (Fairmont
Park). N. Red Oak Wins.

Tuliptrees grow to 158.6 at Fairmont Park (tallest in Northeast), 141.4 at 
Cook, and 146 at McConnel's Mills.

Tom Diggins,

I see heights in Zoar Valley for tuliptree (156) and Northern Red Oak (140.3). 
Do you have any measurements of White Oak or Cucumber tree?

Ed Frank

 
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: More for Russ


Kirk

Cucumber magnolia is not extremely common in terms of finding pure
stands in central WV but it can be a frequent component in very fertile
cove sites.  In terms of growth, I have some dominant trees in their 
early 20's in terms of DBH and .6" per year in diameter growth is the 
best I have yet to see.

On some sites cucumber tree can have taper similar to poplar but I
would always expect it to top out about 25 to 30' under poplar's max
height. In most mature forests I encounter where poplar red oak and
cucumber tree are together I would expect the red oak and white oak to
grow taller than the cucumber.

Russ