Hello,
This is the thread of the discussion Don and I have been having
on the
subject. I thought I would post it to the discussion list.....
Ed Frank
----------------------------------
From: DON
BERTOLETTE
To: edfr-@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 11:21 PM
Subject: RE: Single and Multitrunked trees
Ed-
Noting that there appears to be a water line some 12 inches
above
CURRENT ground level (no pun intended), I'd want to ask the
question
often posed of sycamores around Hatfield MA...are we seeing the
tree's
trunk some distance up it, or are we actually near the root
collar. In
the absence of a clearly defined and accepted rule, I would
still
measure 4.5 inches above root collar, unless there were special
circumstances about the tree that mitigated for a different
measuring
point (butt swell, buttressing, burls, etc., come to mind).
Given that Will's tree with pith delineations had a root collar
at
current ground level, I would suggest that there are three
separate
trees there. I would start out measuring dbh/circumference, at
4.5 feet
above ground...it looks like the larger tree might have some
burls/deformities that might 'get in the way' of an accurate
measurement, in which case, I'd measure the dbh/circumference
until I
got a 'minimum reading', say within a foot or two of breast
height...here it becomes a judgement call, a 'swag' if you will.
Now for the fun of it, let's "what if" a scenario,
where it turns out
that this tree's base is actually 12 foot under current ground
level,
and the piths of all three trees intersect about 5.5 feet above
our
"what if" tree's actual base. Here you'd have ONE tree
forking a foot
above breast height...right?
-Don
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From: "Edward Frank" <edfr-@comcast.net>;
To: "DON BERTOLETTE" <foresto-@msn.com>;
Subject: Re: Single and Multitrunked trees
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:32:56 -0400
Don,
I have been talking about current ground/supporting surface upon
which
the tree is growing because I want a definition that does not
require
any interpretation by the person doing the measuring. They do
not need
to determine if it is buried by several feet of extra dirt, if
its roots
are exhumed, if it grew on a nurse log, or started on the side
of a
boulder that has since rolled away. If there is some
interpretation
that can be easily made, that can be included in the description
along
with what the measurer believes to be a more appropriate girth,
but the
base measurement should be based upon a criteria that does not
require
interpretation.
I am still bothered by rely fat trees on steep slopes, but I
could not
get anyone to offer or agree to an alternative base point for
girth
measurements.
Ed Frank
-----
Original Message ----------------------------------------------------------
From: DON BERTOLETTE
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: Single and Multitrunked trees
Ed-
I have been in the same 'grapple' and not arrived at a
satisfactory
solution.
At the accuracy level that we are measuring tree heights (to the
tenth
of a foot, or something slightly more than an inch). to not
require
expertise in judging where the root collar is, seems
counter-intuitive...:>}
I can't think of a more definitive and correct way to measure
height of
a tree, than from where it's root system ends...commonly known
and
reasonably easily determined, as a root collar.
-Don
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From: "Edward Frank" <edfr-@comcast.net>;
To: "DON BERTOLETTE" <foresto-@msn.com>;
Subject: Re: Single and Multitrunked trees
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:22:48 -0400
Don,
This is how I have arrived at the conclusions I have offered. As
I see
it the biggest problem with comparing girth measurements made by
different people is that different people measure trees in
different
ways and at different points. Look at photos of how girths are
being
measured in some of the champion tree books. Some are at ground
level.
Some wrap around two or more separate trunks, others stretch
around
branches that stick out at 4 1/2 feet. Even well meaning people
trying
to measure the best way have their own interpretation of what is
right.
The goal of my designation of 4.5 feet or gbh above the current
supporting ground surface eliminates any interpretation from the
measurement. This will be good for the vast majority of trees
that are
measured and assure that these numbers are measured in the same
way each
time. There are the exceptions specifically noted in the
protocol for
when there are burls or irregularities at that height, or if
their are
low branches below that height. In each of cases the protocol
say
specifically what should be measured and what numbers should be
noted -
including the actual height above ground level and the reason
for not
measuring at the standard height. Again there is no
interpretation to
create variability between the different people measuring and
their
numbers.
If the person doing the measurement is knowledgeable enough to
notice
that the tree is partially buried, or is growing on a nurse log
or some
similar anomaly, they are encouraged to make an additional
measurement
at what they interpret to be the correct height and note this in
the
tree description, but this should be in addition to not in place
of the
standard ground level plus 4.5 foot measurement.
This started out from the concept expressed by Colby Rucker of
measure
from "where the acorn sprouted." This
seems to me to be a basic and
profound concept. I am not sure the top of the root collar meets
this
definition. The transition between basal flair and upper root
collar is
from my observations, and I may be wrong often at a higher point
that
the original sprout point for the tree. I think the ground
surface as
projected under the tree, typically below the root collar,
better meets
the "where the acorn sprouted" concept and is to my
mind the better
choice.
For those interested in root collar information basics and tree
planting
there is a nice article on the subject at this address (I have
included
an excerpt from one page of the document):
A Practitioner's Guide to Stem Girdling Roots of Trees
Gary R. Johnson
University of Minnesota
Richard J. Hauer
Minnesota Department of Agriculture BU-07501 2000
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/naturalresources/DD7501.html
Normal vs. Abnormal Root Systems
Root collar examinations are used to determine if root system
abnormalities are impacting a tree. To determine if a root
system
abnormality exists, one needs to compare against a normal root
system.
Field observation, along with a review of species-specific root
system
profiles, will help provide the practitioner with an
understanding of a
normal root system. An easy way to observe normal root systems
is to
take a walk in the woods. But in general terms, what is a normal
or
ideal root system?
Normal root systems are often described as having main (first
order)
laterals that radiate from all sides of the stem/root interface
(Figure
23). The number of main laterals ranges from a few to more than
a dozen.
Trees in forests with a greater number of main laterals than
other trees
tend to become dominant survivors in a competitive forest
community
(Kormanik 1986). The root diameter of main order laterals
decreases
rapidly through the zone of rapid taper into ropelike roots with
approximate diameters of 0.5 to 3 inches. Root spread is usually
well
beyond the drip line, commonly to about three times the branch
spread
(Gilman 1997).
Fig. 23 - A normal littleleaf linden's root system, showing the
larger,
main order roots radiating out from the stem/root interface
(root
collar).
Most main-order laterals originate from the root collar and
parallel the
soil surface at depths of a few inches to a foot or more. Many
tree
species also produce oblique roots, which grow at a sharp angle
into the
soil and stabilize trees. Sinker roots grow downward from
lateral roots
on approximately 75% of tree species, function in support and
absorption, and usually are located within 6 to 10 feet of the
stem.
From main-order laterals arise secondary and tertiary woody and
nonwoody
roots, which magnify the absorption of water and nutrients.
These roots
proliferate in zones of favorable moisture and nutrition. Most
exist
within the top foot of the soil surface.
Stem diameter normally increases from the top downward. Root
flares
and/or stem tapers are common (except in some conifers) due to a
growth
pattern in which growth is greater on the top of the root than
the
bottom. When trees are planted deep or soil fill is placed over
the root
system, this characteristic pattern might not be visible.
Edward Frank
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Ed-
Thanks for the thoughtful response!
I think that you'll find no better definition of root collar
than where
the acorn sprouted, as that one inch (plus or minus) most
definitively
describes, in "the proverbial nutshell", where the
root collar was at
"birth", and would (tree physiology-wise) be at
present (barring, as you
say, anomalies such as nurse trees, infilling from flooding,
etc.).
-Don
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