Philadelphia area trees   Anthony M Kelly
  Dec 04, 2005 20:34 PST 

Scott and John,

A couple questions and a few comments on large trees in the Philadelphia area.

Concerning the large trees that you come across in people's yards or on the grounds of larger estates, do you think that they were planted by people hundreds of years ago when the area was first settled? Or, do you think any were they part of the original forested landscape? What do you know about their ages? Have most of them been "tended to" over the years improving their health and size?

In particular, Scott, what do you know about big oak that you found a couple of weeks ago. John what do you know about the Lansdowne oak that you mention.

Scott, what do you mean by the "dog leg" of Chester County?

I mentioned in an earlier posting that Northern Delaware should have lots of big trees.   I can remember driving past large tracts of woodland that make up the country estates of the wealthier families of the state. Same goes for parts of Chester CO, PA. Since many of those estates have been in those families since at least into the early 1800's and since their purpose was "country leisure" and not timber production, I would imagine that at least some of them must contain tracts of old trees, perhaps even original forest.

What do you think?

Have you ever been into the woods on any of these larger wooded rural (as opposed to suburban) estates?

There are similar estates in and around the Laurel Mountains in Western, PA. Some of them must cover thousands of acres. I don't know how far back they date, though. Pittsburgh money is not as old as Philly or Delaware money. The Western PA versions may well have come into being after the era of the great clear cuts. Some simple historical research would probably give me more insight into the question. I haven't yet taken the time to do any, though.

Tony
Re: Philadelphia area trees   wad-@comcast.net
  Dec 06, 2005 04:47 PST 
Tony

Planted or saved trees? Both. Some of the older estates were planned gardens, and others cleared around the desirable trees.

The age of the trees can only be guessed. If the tree is a forest remnant, I will use the factors from the forestry dept to guesstimate age. If it is an open grown tree, I usually guess low. I hope to get into coring soon to help this situation. Often the biggest and oldest trees have had little if any care. I find that a tree that is forgotten about, or not attended to, can do better on it's own if it is growing in a good spot.

The two big oaks in Broomall have no history that I have found. I hope to dig into this before October 06 when we take the Longwood tour to see them. I am sure they were originally part of some estate farm from 1700 something. Both trees were around 300 years old in my opinion. Maybe more. The biggest one was probably there in 1682 when Penn landed.

Chester county has a narrow part that extends between Delaware county and Montgomery county. It is mostly old money horse farms and estates. Some are still intact, others subdivided.

I have been into a few farms in the Brandywine Valley with permission. One 700 acre tract had alot of 30"+ hickory, 40"+ beech, 55"+ oak and sycamore. The owner (about 65) said his father timbered the property regularly. The areas that had these trees were too wet or rocky to farm. It is still an operating farm today. You have to remember that before the money was made, and these farms became estates, that the wood was the fuel for furnaces, lime kilns and the like. Northern Delaware does have some property to be explored, but I am still working on Pa.

Pittsburgh, or Fort Duquesne as the French called it, was active in the 1750's. It did not develop like Philadelphia did though. The estates were in the surrounding mountain regions. Holidaysburg, Ebensburg, and other towns. I think there are alot of trees to be found out that way. The big boom time came with industrialization in the 1800's though. I would seek out the homesteads of the Mellons, Carnegies, and others if they still exist.

Scott
Re: Philadelphia area trees   Anthony M Kelly
  Dec 06, 2005 19:43 PST 

Scott,

Thanks for answering my questions about Philly area trees. I forgot that the forests in that area would have been under enormous fuel-wood pressures as soon as it became well settled. Still, it looks like you found some nice trees on the one Chester CO farm.

Back to Western PA. Up until about the time of the great depression there were quite a few country estates in the Holidaysburg and Ebensburg areas. Not just Pittsburghers, but New Yorkers, too, spent their summers there. Today, most are completely gone. Manor houses and grand hotels were torn down for the wood and properties were sold off. There are still a few houses and garden areas left, usually in states of advanced deterioration. I grew up near Ebensburg and have no memories of seeing any big trees on or near any of them -- but I was looking for them then either.

I recently visited the main grounds of the Schwab Estate in Loretto, PA. It is really the only one that has been continuously kept up. The Catholic Church bought it after Charles M. Schwab died and converted the manor house into a monastery. I didn't see any extraordinary trees on my visit. Who knows? There may be a few on some of the more wooded areas of the estate that I didn't visit. I wouldn't count on it, though.

Today, most of the intact Pittsburghers' country estates are further south in the Ligoneer area. Like I said before, some cover a lot of land in the mountains there. I think there is more big/old tree potential down there.

By the way, I remember you telling me when we met at Cook Forest in April that your wife is from Ebensburg. If you plan on being in that area over the holidays, perhaps we could check out a few of the nearby old estate grounds just for the hell of it.

Tony