Berks county champs and some others    wad-@comcast.net
   Aug 25, 2006 19:36 PDT 
ENTS

A while back I responded to a resident of Chester County Pa that had a big cherry tree in their yard. She said it was a wild cherry. I thought I would be going to look at a bird cherry (P. avium) To my delight I measured a very nice black cherry. http://www.pabigtrees.com/trees/species/prunus_cherry.htm

It was 15.6 x 72.8 It was not a new champ, but more than likely the biggest in Eastern Pa.

On a different day, I went to measure the second biggest white oak in Pa (by 2 points mind you) This tree is located at the London Grove Friends Meeting in Chester County. What an amazing tree.

whiteoak.jpg (418394 bytes)

http://www.pabigtrees.com/trees/images/LGFM%2006%202%20small.jpg

It weighs in at 21.9 x 87.3. It is a Penn Charter oak (alive in 1682) I also visited two other Penn charter oaks in Oxford Pa. One was 18.8 cbh and the other was 20'+cbh. Both trees were in serious decline, but still alive.

Today I ventured to the Oley valley in Berks county Pa. Megan Varnes (ENTS lurker) and Dr. Tom DeLong (85 year old retired Pa Forester) and I went to see a rare giant. The sacred oak of the Oley Valley is a Chinkapin Oak, Q. muhlenbergii. This tree is 21.2 x 75.3 with a 120' spread. This tree is well documented with CBH measurements of 1932- 17.8' 1969- 19.6' 1982- 19.10' and 2006- 21.2' It is registered as a Penn charter tree, meaning it was alive in 1682 when William Penn arrived to his new colony. Native american folklore says that a local chief had come to pray at the tree to save his ill wife, she survived. He again came to pray over a decision to war with a neighboring enemy. He ended up trading goods to the other tribe as a gesture of peace and avoided war. He asked the owner at that time if the tree could be spared from harvest. This info is from an article in the Reading Eagle from 1927. Today, the township officials have changed the zoning from residential to
agricultural to preserve the tree. It is also in the green space trust in the county so it cannot be developed without paying a boat load of back taxes and intrest. The 90 acre tract is currently for sale for 900,000.

chiquapinoak.jpg (412365 bytes)

http://www.pabigtrees.com/trees/images/Sacred%20oak%20of%20the%20oley%20valley%2006.JPG

Dr Tom had measured the tree in 1969. It is a past National champion, beat out now by about 40 points. He had considered not coming along when I offered, but when the day was over, he was very glad he came along. He told so many great stories about cruising timber in the old days. He mentioned a swamp in Georgia in the 40's, where he was hired to calculate the volume of a virgin stand of cypres and gum, stating DBH numbers that were huge. He talked about his days in India during WW2 and Germany after the war. Dr. Tom's Father was in the first Forestry class at Penn State in 1906, and studied under Illick and Rothrock. Both were famous fathers of forestry in our state. Just an incredible person. He is in incredible shape for 85 and runs a Christmas tree farm in Berks county now.

We also visited an old estate and found a Persimmon that was 6.8 x 79.1 which is a new height record for Pa for this species.
http://www.pabigtrees.com/trees/images/Flippin%20persimmon%2006.JPG

We also visited Blue Falls Grove, north of Reading. It is an old estate turned into a picnic park. Here we measured an old Bald Cypress that was 13.4 x 86. The third largest in Pa.
http://www.pabigtrees.com/trees/images/blue%20falls%20grove%20bald%20cypress%2006.JPG Does that guy look 85!!! I can only hope.

This is probably the wildest Pecan I have ever measured. It is also at Blue Falls Grove. It is a new champ for Pa, but the spread just blew me away. It is 9.5 x 91.9 with a 132' spread! The one limb is 78' long and hangs about 6' off the ground the entire way.


pecan.jpg (472290 bytes)

http://www.pabigtrees.com/trees/images/blue%20falls%20grove%20pecan%20spread.JPG

What a great day.

Scott
RE: Berks county champs and some others   wad-@comcast.net
  Aug 27, 2006 08:07 PDT 
Will

Several trees were cored in the 1932 survey, and other trees were aged from Forestry factors. Some trees were on survey maps as lines or corners on original Penn Grants. Some may not be that old. The book that listed the trees originally gave estimations of age with a 50 year range. Like 250-300 yrs old. I guess they used what they had. They are still huge impressive trees no matter what the age. They also missed a lot of trees. I think the state champion mockernut hickory is close to 300 as I ring counted a 22" dbh mockernut at work at 202 years old. The state champ is 38" dbh in similar growing conditions which would suggest an age over 300 yrs.

I would love to learn how to core trees and accurately count the rings. Maybe that should be a demonstration at one of the ENTS meetings sometime.

Scott

-------------- Original message --------------

From: Will Blozan 
Scott,

How are these trees verified to have been alive in 1682?

Will
Re: Berks county champs and some others   Jess Riddle
  Aug 27, 2006 08:49 PDT 

Scott,

Thanks for posting the links to the pictures. I can't decide if the
white oak or chinkapin oak is the most impressive of the group to me.
I've seen relatively few chinkapin oaks, and none of them have been
anywhere near the size of the one you visited. The limbs on the white
oak are strikingly massive.

Thanks,
Jess
RE: Berks county champs and some others   Will Blozan
  Aug 28, 2006 07:04 PDT 
Scott,

Interesting. I would cast a very suspicious eye at core samples on those
huge trees. Generally the ages are extrapolated which leads to massive
overestimates. Michael Davie and I looked at a 25' cbh white oak north of
Asheville several years ago. I think the owner said it was "cored" to 450
years old. It was simply an extrapolation, and a recently cut major limb ~
12 feet off the ground indicated ~125 years. White oaks grow very fast as do
red oaks in the open. The supposed ages of these trees approach the maximum
known for the species- which almost always occur on severe sites with
"suppressed" growth (small).

Basically, there is no significant correlation of size to age. Neil can
expand on this. I have personally cored eastern hemlocks 400 years old less
than 8 inches in diameter. This does not mean a 32 inch diameter tree is 4X
older.

Thanks for the awesome trees you let us ENTS know about. You are in an
arboreally blessed region!

Will
Re: Berks county champs and some others   Michele Wilson
  Aug 28, 2006 07:22 PDT 

For years and years I've included a "some notable trees" item with a little
tree symbol in the Legend on the maps I prepare for my various forestry
clients... and then I estimate the locations of the ones I've encountered on
the maps themselves... it is a way of inspiring the landowners to get
further out on their own land via a sort of fun and interesting scavenger
hunt! As the years go by, a landowner will mention from time to time "Hey!
I think I found that one or this one!!"
Michele
RE: Berks county champs and some others   wad-@comcast.net
  Aug 28, 2006 07:42 PDT 
Will

I would never declare an age for a tree, as I do not have the experience. We have a Eurpean beech here where I work that is 63" DBH and is the third largest in the state. When I came here I was told it was 300 years old! Well, I shot that one down pretty fast. I estimate that the tree is about 160, due to another beech that is similar size planted at the driveway entrance that leads to a road that didn't exist before 1846. Why would they flank a driveway with two matching trees (the other one died) if it didn't lead anywhere? Plus the popularity of the copper beech was at it's height in the Victorian period. I have told them the oldest it could be is 160, but it is probably younger.

I have a piece of Sawtooth oak (Q. accutissima) that is 9" in diameter and it is all of 10 years old.

I would love to start coring trees. Just need a lesson!

Scott