Anders Run update   Dale J. Luthringer
  Apr 14, 2004 19:43 PDT 

I took a trip up to Anders Run N.A. today to take some slides of the
Cornplanter Pine. what a beauty. After I finished that, I spent the
rest of the day checking out the flat marshy area down by the Allegheny
River. I wanted to check out a couple of planted spruce that stuck out
over the rest of the trees on the flat. This area is where Gen.
Irvine's plantation and progeny's mansion was once located. I found a
couple of dandies in there. I even managed to bump the Rucker Index up
a notch on my out when I ran into some old relic swamp white oaks.

I started my search of the river flat from a trail that starts from the
parking area located at the intersection of Anders Run and Dunns Eddy
Road. The trail starts south from the parking area then turns east
heading adjacent and upstream along the Allegheny River. I soon came
across a nice river bank N. red oak to 17.6ft CBH x 86.9ft high.

After about another couple hundred yards from the fat N. red oak, the
tall spruce came into view. They turned out taller than I thought. The
first one easily broke Cook Forest's tallest Norway spruce at 119.2ft.
The next broke that at 123.2ft. There was a nice tamarack larch beside
it that went to 10.6ft CBH (2x, fused trunk split at ~10ft up from base)
x 111.5ft high. Then a nice balsam fir to 6.8ft CBH x 91.8. Then came
the real nice Norway spruce. 10.2ft CBH x 131.9ft high! I was beginning
to think I wasn't going to find any 120 footers, let alone a 130. With
an average crown spread of 37.6ft, it came up with 263.7 big tree
points. I'm not sure yet how that stacks up with others across the

I then turned back west and skirted the edge of a wetland. Turns out
there are a few relic oak species in there along the edges. There are
some old swamp white oaks, a large wolf white oak and black oak (both
have a very gnarled and burled base). The tallest swamp white oak went
to 10.4ft CBH x 111ft high, not bad.

The day's stats follows:

Species                        CBH     Height   Comments

Balsam fir                      N/A       75         planted
Balsam fir                      6.8        91.8      planted

Black oak                      12.9      84.1+    ancient tree, heavily
burled base & lower trunk
Black oak                      5.1        102

Cucumbertree                5.6        102.1+

E. white pine                 10         124

Norway spruce               N/A       111.9    planted
Norway spruce               8.4        119.2    planted
Norway spruce               9.8        123.2    planted
Norway spruce               10.2      131.9    tallest NE?, planted

N. red oak                     17.6      86.9      riverbank

Shagbark hickory           5.4        102.2    
Shagbark hickory           5.5        109.6

Swamp white oak           8.7        94.2
Swamp white oak           9.7        95         ancient tree
Swamp white oak           8.4        102.8
Swamp white oak           11.4      107.6
Swamp white oak           10.4      111       tallest NE?

European larch              10.6      111.5    2x, fused 10ft up fm
base, planted

White ash                     5.1        105.1+

White oak                     8          87.1+
White oak                     15.3      87.1+    old wolf tree
White oak                     7.8        102.1+
White oak                     9.3        111.1+

Here's a rough visual estimate on some of the old growth species that
can be found throughout the Anders Run N.A.

Species                        Est. Age

Black gum                     150
Black oak                      200
E. white pine                 350 (many 250+)
E. hemlock                    350
N. red oak                     150
White oak                     200+
Swamp white oak           200+

Anders Run Rucker Index 121.48

Species                        CBH     Height   Comments

E. white pine                 13.3      165.1    state champ,
Cornplanter Pine
E. hemlock                    7.5        125.4
Black cherry                  6.6        121.8
Am. basswood               8.1        120.7
White ash                     7.2        116.9
Red maple                     4.4        116
Cucumbertree                3.9        115.8
White oak                     9.3        111.1    
Swamp white oak           10.4      111       tallest NE
Shagbark hickory           5.3        111

That bumps Anders Run back into the #4 position in the state:

Site                                          Rucker Index

Cook Forest State Park            135.47
Wintergreen Gorge                   127.89
Fairmont Park                          127.72
Anders Run N.A.                     121.48
Walnut Creek Gorge                121.28
Ricketts Glen N.A.                   119.85
Heart's Content N.A.               113.79
Lake Erie Community Park       113.57
Alan Seeger N.A.                     111.13
Coho Property                         109.59
Tionesta N.A.                           109.36
Scott Community Park              107.93
Glenwood Park                          98.08

I was very impressed with the old, fairly large, and tall swamp white
oaks. This is the first decent stand of swamp whites that I've been
able to survey. A number of them went over 100ft. I'm pretty sure I
found the tallest the site has to offer for that species.

I can't wait to be able to get onto Thompson Island a short distance
down-river this summer and survey the large and tall (130+ft) sycamores.
Bruce was on the island a few years ago and says there's some fat ones
there (15ft CBH+). I just need to wait for the water to go down a bit
so I can wade across. Maybe I'll just bring my fishin' innertube.
amazing what us some of us fanatics will go to to measure a couple of

Re: Anders Run update
  Apr 15, 2004 04:03 PDT 


I am needle green with Norway spruce envy. That is one heck of a tree. You've captured the northeastern record by a lot. I'll have to remeasure the Norway spruce in Egremont. It should be slightly under, or with lots of luck, over 124 feet by now. Many western MA Norway spruce exceed 100 feet, but above 115, they drop out like flies. You have yourself a special tree.

The list of PA sites grows in impressiveness. The abundance of 120 Rucker indices confirms that PA exceeds the lands to the north.

The huge Cornplanter Pine is something to behold. I need to get back up to the pines in Tamworth in NH and measure the biggie. It should be a little over 150 and it had a girth of 14 feet.


Anders Run update   Dale J. Luthringer
  Jun 08, 2004 18:47 PDT 
Bob, Colby, Will,

I've finally updated my Anders Run Natural Area files. Anders Run
turned out to be more impressive than I originally perceived. It turns
out that it not only has a few impressive white pines, but also some
nice plantation grown conifers as well along the flat adjacent to the
Allegheny River and associated wetlands.

I measured a swamp white oak down on the flat near the Allegheny River
to 10.4ft CBH x 111ft high. If our ENTS tall tree list is up to date,
it appears that this tree might be the tallest so far documented in the
Eastern U.S. Are you guys "hiding" any swamp white oak I'm not aware

Here's a general list of the more noteworthy trees at Anders Run:

Species                        CBH     Height   Status

E. white pine                 13.3      165.1    PA State Champ
Cornplanter Pine
Norway spruce               10.2      131.9    tallest E. U.S.?, PA
State Champ?          plantation tree
European larch              10.6      111.5    tallest E. U.S.?
double, plantation tree
Swamp white oak           10.4      111       tallest E. U.S.?
Balsam fir                        6.2        91.8    tallest E. U.S.?
plantation tree

The Ander's Run white pine tally as follows:

Height Class      # trees

120                                      2
130                                      7
140                                    11
150                                      6
160                                      1

Anders Run Rucker Index as follows:

Species                        CBH     Height   Comments        Rucker

E. white pine                 13.3      165.1    PA State Champ
E. hemlock                    7.5        125.4
Black cherry                  6.6        121.8
Am. basswood               8.1        120.7
White ash                     7.2        116.9
Red maple                     4.4        116
Cucumbertree                3.9        115.8
White oak                     9.3        111.1
Shagbark hickory           5.3        111
Swamp white oak           10.4      111       tallest E. U.S.?

Anders Run update   Dale J. Luthringer
  Dec 09, 2004 18:25 PST 

I took a short excursion to Anders Run today to re-measure the
Cornplanter Pine for a possible climb come spring. I last measured it
on 3/23/04 at 13.3ft CBH x 165.1ft high, and thankfully remembered
stating that I still couldn't see the whole top. Well, I was able to
find a different vantage point today just a little further south while
still on the road where I could get a better view of the northern part
of the crown. Translated, I found another sprig that I couldn't see
before with an almost unobstructed view to the base. Four measurements
today on that sprig, which is full of cones, yielded the following


So, we now have a new height for the Cornplanter Pine which is set at
166.8ft, or until Will can find another sprig that is currently
invisible to my eye. I also put the crown spread at 46.4ft. The
Cornplanter Pine is currently the highest ENTS points tree I've measured
in PA at 2218.4 (CBH x height). Total AF big tree points is now 338.
The Seneca Pine is at 333.6 big tree points. The Cornplanter Pine is
MASSIVE!!! It definitely has more volume than the Seneca Pine. It is
only a short ~90 yard straight line distance from the road, but up a
short and very steep slippery slope. A large group of people would have
to take the trail to the uphill side of it if they wanted to get upclose
and personal. The rest could just watch the show from the road if they
so desired.

So far, I only have 5 trees that break 2000 ENTS points for
Pennsylvania. These are:

Tree                                         CBH     Height ENTS Points

PA State Co-Champ N. red oak   16.7      120.4    2010.7
Heart's Content Pine                  12.7      160       2032
Walnut Creek Gorge Sycamore   15.3      133.8    2047.1
Seneca Pine                              12.5      172.7    2158.8
Cornplanter Pine                        13.3      166.8    2218.4

I'd place pretty good odds that a number of sycamore will make the PA
list The Cook Pine almost makes this list at 12.4ft CBH x 160.2ft high
for 1986.5 ENTS points.

I also decided to remeasure the Norway Spruce height record located in
the plantation area. I last measured it on 4/14/04 at 10.2ft CBH x
131.9ft high. Today's measurements yielded a 0.4ft growth candle.
Current measurements are 10.3ft CBH x 37.6ft spread x 132.3ft high for
265.3 AF points.

I also measured a few more trees on the flat adjacent to the river just
south of the record spruce tree. These were right on the river terrace
edge. Had a nice sycamore here to 12.9ft CBH x 107.8ft high (new 12x100
club tree). Also bagged a personal best silver maple height at 8.7ft
CBH x 116.1ft high and a taller white ash than previously found at this
site to 11.5ft CBH x 118.4ft high (no slouch). The silver maple,
Cornplanter Pine, and white ash all bumped Anders Run's RI up to 122.31
from 121.48.

I've attached my latest PA RI standings via excel spreadsheet. Ander's
Run now sits at #5 out of 19 PA sites. Here's a quick run-down:

Rucker Index

Cook Forest State Park

Wintergreen Gorge

Fairmont Park

Ricketts Glen State Park

Anders Run N.A.

Walnut Creek Gorge

Hemlocks N.A.

Heart's Content N.A.

Lake Erie Community Park

Coho Property

Alan Seeger N.A.

Scott Community Park

Tionesta N.A.

Allegheny River

Detweiler Run N.A.

Laurel Run Rd-Centre County

Glenwood Park

Bear Meadows N.A.

Parker Dam State Park

Great day. it even held off raining until I got back to the car. First
time it didn't rain all day over here in the last week and a half!