Kellogg Conference Center

Kellogg Conference Center, Hendersonville, NC

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TOPIC: Kellogg Conference Center, Hendersonville, NC
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/7ba27edc32ab24bb?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 11:24 am
From: "Will Blozan"

ENTS,

On 12/2/2007 I followed up on James Parton's invitation to see a favorite
tree site of his near Hendersonville, NC. The Kellogg Conference Center
(KCC) is owned and managed as part of the University of North Carolina,
Asheville. The 50 acre site has a mix of conference buildings, open meadows,
and wooded trails. Several small streams bisect the property and topography
is slight. The trees were probably a maximum of around 120 years old.

http://www.kelloggcenter.org/about/about.php

James was impressed with the white pines there and had sent me some photos.
They were indeed big trees and of good form. I knew the Hendersonville area
grew some nice white pines, and I had measured some really fine ones at the
nearby Carl Sandburg Home. The KCC did not have the age of those at the
Sandburg Home yet they turned out to be taller. I was excited to have
another site measured from this area of awesome white pines!

We met up and walked into the property since the gate was closed. The trail
system does a good job of traversing the dense forests and the lack of
leaves allowed a good overview of the big/tall trees. James and I went
off-trail following the leads of taller specimens here and there. Due to the
rather poor soils hardwoods did not perform too well and the conifers
dominated. Overall, the stately white pines stole the show but running a
close second was the incredible collection of pitch and Virginia pine.
Eastern hemlock was present and looked fairly good although HWA was rampant
and some trees had begun to lose needles. I am not sure what the plans are
regarding HWA management but it wouldn't take much money at all to treat all
the ones along the trails.

Great White Pine - photo by James Parton

Trailside White Pine - photo by James Parton

James took me first to a section of forest he knew had big pines. I shot the
laser all around on the way there to get a sense of the heights. White pines
were "roughing" out to the mid 120's on ridges so I knew if we could find
some sheltered topography the heights may jump upwards. When we reached the
grove he excitedly pointed out "his" trees. SWEET! was the word of the day
as gorgeous white pines dominated the forest. They were well formed and
packed in dense groves, so staying focused on one tree became difficult. We
must have looked like idiots skipping thru the forest exclaiming; "Oh, this
one looks good, no wait, that one over there has GOT to be tall!"

Pitch, white, and Virginia pine forest. Tallest VA pine right center
(leaning)

The first tree I measured was a tuliptree 32.8" diameter X 123.4' tall. It
was one of the largest tuliptrees we saw but both larger and taller ones
were found later (35.7" X 120.3'; 32.2" X 130.7').

Tuliptree - photo by James Parton

The pines were hitting
the low 130's when we were drawn off-trail up the gentle slope towards more
and more pines. The mid 130's started to appear and we hit another section
of trail. Tuliptree was commonly over 120'. This area had more white pines
but a 13" diameter Virginia pine caught my eye; 103.5 feet tall! Not bad!

Virginia Pine - photo by James Parton

Then the pitch pines appeared in droves. Diameters from 21-31 inches
diameter and heights over 100 feet were very impressive. We entered one
grove of nearly pure pitch pine with scattered (tall) Virginia pines mixed
in. The pitch pines were 104- 119.8' tall with several over 110'.

Will_119_8FtPitchPine.JPG (106202 bytes)

119.5 foot tall Pitch Pine - photo by James Parton

Although much skinnier, the Virginia pines were right up there with them! Virtually
every one I shot into was 100' or more- the tallest was an astounding 109.8'
tall!

109.8 foot Virginia pine with 106.2 footer to the right.

One of the pitch pines was truly massive. It is certainly one of the largest
I have ever seen and plan to model it for volume. I suspect it may be close
to 300 cubes.

James Parton and a 29.4" X 119.8 foot pitch pine and stitch of whole tree

After marveling over this tree we explored off-trail in an awesome white
pine grove that reminded me of the William Cullen Bryant Homestead in MA.

White Pine Grove - photo by James Parton

The small grove was dense and the trees were of excellent form and free of
branch stubs. I commented that Bob Leverett would like this place, and the
heights here went up to 140.1 feet. They are not done growing yet and should
produce a 150 footer soon. Awesome, awesome place. wish I had taken some
pictures.

146.5 foot White Pine - photo by James Parton

We rejoined the trail and came in sight of a massive white pine- one we
missed when we got distracted up slope earlier in the day. James had a photo
of this beast with a craggy crown and large reiterations. Shooting straight
up with the laser I knew this would be taller, and the slow tapered 36.7"
diameter trunk was really impressive. The height came out to 146.5 feet with
a vigorous candle of new growth. I mentioned I would like to climb it, and
suspect with continued growth it will be a giant. Nearby this tree was
another big pine 42.5" diameter X 134.5 feet, the largest forest grown pine
we encountered.

James Parton and field White Pine

On the way out we went through the conference center grounds and measured a
huge "field" pine nearly 60" diameter below the influence of the huge limbs.
Nearby it was a grove of winged or shining sumac (Rhus copallina). The
largest tree in the grove was 13" CBH X 35.2 feet tall. This tree was large
enough to be a NC Champion Tree but I think Jess and Josh have measured a
larger one.

My goals were to survey for the tallest trees and get enough species for an
initial Rucker Index. The conifers dominated so well that the hardwoods
(other than tuliptree of course) really didn't do much, so the Rucker Index
would be very low. It actually became tedious to find tall hardwoods, and I
failed to get enough species for the Rucker Index. I roughed out heights all
day however, and black, scarlet, white, and chestnut oaks all were ~100' and
a few hickories may be a bit taller. I guess another trip is in order.

List of tallest trees found

DBH Height

Eastern white pine 36.7" 146.5'

Tuliptree 32.2" 130.7'

Pitch pine 29.4" 119.8'

Virginia pine 15.7" 109.8'

Shining sumac 4.2" 35.2'

Will

12' 3" cbh White Oak - photo by James Parton

I thought I knew this small tract of woods fairly well but I learned
much on that day about it. I still wonder if they may be a 150 lurking
in there somewhere? Actually we found two White Pines over 140 ft. The
146.5 footer was the tallest. I will upload some pictures I took while
there to the upload page for all to see & for Ed to add to this post
when he adds it to the ENTS website, including one I took earlier in
the year of the 146.5 footer.

You have got me interested on doing a more detailed look on the
Sandburg estate also. I would like to get you into Paris Mountain
State Park SC as well.

Again, GREAT post!!: James P.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 2:29 pm
From: dbhguru@comcast.net

Will,

Congratulations! Great job. Very, very impressive. This is what ENTS is all about.

Bob

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 3:24 pm
From: James Parton

Will, Bob,

Here is a " Quick " post concerning Kellogg that I did back on Dec 2.
It has one of Will's pictures ( Me and the 59" Diameter White Pine )
and one of my fiance' Joy posing with another big White Pine. Will
mentioned that the possible max age of the White Pines being perhaps
120 years. I feel that some may be older. A close friend of mine, Clay
Tench, lives right across from the Kellogg Center and during a recent
storm a White Pine fell across his house. The tree had a diameter of
about 20 inches and had 56 growth rings that I could count. Counting
was difficult due to the sap running across the cut section of the
tree. If a 20 inch tree has 56 rings how much would a 36" one have? I
know trees all do not grow at the same rate. Soil, location and water
all play a part but the Rudnick pines are very close to Clay's. I
seems that the growth rate would be similar. I guess coring a couple
of the trees on the Kellogg site would answer that question?

http://www.nativetreesociety.org/fieldtrips/north_carolina/kellogg_center.htm

JP

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 7:52 pm
From: "Jess Riddle"

The largest shining sumac I have for NC is a 15.5" x 38.7' tree on
Mingus Creek in the Smokies.

Nice report.

Jess

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 7:58 pm
From: James Parton

Jess,

Your Mingus Creek sumac is just bigger than the Kellogg one. I was not
familiar with this tree prior to the Kellogg outing.

Will you be able to make it to the entmoot?

JP

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TOPIC: Kellogg Trip Photos
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/a97198fad5892532?hl=en
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== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 12:59 pm
From: James Parton

Will/Ed/ENTS,

Instead of uploading them to the file page I decided to post the photos from the Kellogg outing. Ed, when you add Will's Kellogg post to the ENTS website could you add these photos to it? I took more photos than Will did since he did almost all of the measuring & recordkeeping during the outing. All the pictures are small files.

Thanks: James P.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 3:55 pm
From: "Mike Leonard"

James,

Wow I never knew pitch pine could grow so big!
Last summer my son Jason and I camped out under a scrawny pitch pine
forest in Cape Cod National Seashore (North Truro).

I know there has been concern in the last few decades of the need for
fires to regenerate the pitch pine forest communities which support many
rare species.

Thanks for the pics! Although the crown shots gave me a bit of vertigo!

Mike

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== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 5:08 pm
From: Gary Smith

James,

Nice photos. "Great Whites!" is awesome.

gs

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 5:37 pm
From: "Will Blozan"

Mike,

Check out some pitch pines in SC!

http://www.nativetreesociety.org/fieldtrips/south_carolina/ellicottrocks/ellicott_rock_wilderness_sc.htm

There are some real beauties in GA and eastern TN as well. The largest pitch
pine I know of is in NC and is 13'1" in girth.

Will

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 6:15 pm
From: James Parton

Gary,

That was one of my favorites too! Thanks.

James

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 6:17 pm
From: James Parton

Will,

That looks like a really nice place to visit. That Pitch Pine was even
bigger than the big Kellogg pine. I bet the hemlocks are pretty much
gone there, with all the adelgid present.

JP

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Kellogg Conference Center, Hendersonville, NC
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/7ba27edc32ab24bb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 10:04 pm
From: "Jess Riddle"

James,

The mountains may not be the best habitat for shining sumac. The
largest one I have seen is a 16.5" x 51.5' individual in Congaree
National Park.

No, I won't be able to make the gathering. Unless something changes
drastically, I'll be working that weekend. I'll just have to content
myself with reading about your escapades.

Jess

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