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TOPIC: East Fork Pigeon River, PNF
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/26d5db3d315867df?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, May 26 2008 7:21 pm
From: James Parton


ENTS,

Saturday, Joy and I, along with Clay Tench and Family went on a hike
on the Big East Fork trail which runs along the east fork of the
Pigeon River in Pisgah National Forest ( Haywood Co, NC ).

It was a nice hike. Nice clear water and all the trees are nice and
green, with the exception of the hemlocks. One big twisted hemlock
that has a cbh of greater than 10 feet was beautiful and green the
last time I saw it, back in feb 2004. Now in May 2008, it is nearly
completely defoliated and barely alive. Few really large girthed trees
were found here and most were of not outstanding height, indicating
second-growth forest, as most of Pisgah is. Various oaks along with
hickories, birches, especially Black Birch, various maples with some
really pretty Striped Maple, basswood and of course Tulip Poplar.
Rhododendron, primarily Rosebay, and Mountain Laurel filled the
understory. American Chestnut was there too. The largest I found was
about 12 feet tall. Up higher I saw some nice Silverbell in bloom.

It was a very casual hike and I did not measure any trees here. I just
enjoyed being out in the woods with my new wife and friends.

On the way up from the other side we stopped at the Sycamore Flats
picnic area. I did measure one nice hawthorn that I missed on a
previous visit. It was 29.63 feet tall. I forgot to photograph the
leaves to help in identifying the species. Hawthorns are among the
hardest to id. They readily hybridize and there are well over a
hundred known types.

I intend to hike Big East Fork, deep into the Shining Rock Wilderness
in the future.

http://www.themountaineer.com/archives/2006/08/02/farmcountry_hike62bigeastfork.html

James Parton

==============================================================================
TOPIC: East Fork Pigeon River, PNF
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/26d5db3d315867df?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 8:05 pm
From: "Jess Riddle"


Hi James,

Next time you're at Shining Rock you might want to try the trail that
starts at the same parking area as the Big East Fork trail, but heads
west up Shining Creek. The trail passes through some nice, uncut
forest dominated by northern red oak, and you could make a loop out of
the hike coming down the Big East Fork trail.

Your description of the area also caught my attention with the
following statement: "Few really large girthed trees
were found here and most were of not outstanding height, indicating
second-growth forest, as most of Pisgah is." I'm sure you could find
many foresters and ecologists who would agree with that statement;
however, I am certain that tree size and old-growth are not correlated
nearly consistently enough for the relationship to be of any practical
value. Many productive sites can produce large trees in under 100
years, and many old-growth forests contain only small trees. In fact,
most old-growth forests in eastern North America do not contain large
trees, because people log and farm the productive sites first.
Support for this idea can also be seen in other posts on this
listserve. Josh Kelly, recently wrote about finding a group of
exceptionally old chestnut oaks, and pointed out that the oldest of
them was less than 30" in diameter. The Pine Flats and Baxter Creek
sites visited during the rendezvous, among the tallest forest in
eastern North America and containing many trees over three feet dbh,
include few trees much over 125 years old. A better example might be
the thousands of acres of cross-timbers forest in Arkansas dominated
by stunted post oaks. Hence, when visiting a forest, whether the
forest is old-growth or second-growth can not be determined just by
examining tree size.

Jess

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 8:40 pm
From: James Parton

Jess,

You are right. Many people, including myself often assume old growth
trees to be large. I remember finding trees cut off trails in several
localities ( The Carl Sandburg Home, for one ) and counting the rings
in them. I have found several that are well over 100 years old and be
only a foot in diameter or so. I sometimes forget that trees do not
have to be of large girth or height to be old. And that a big tree may
not necessarily be old. Will has pointed this out to me before. The
size/age correlation is a rough one and is often not reliable. Thanks
for the reminder.

I will have to check out that other trail.

Thanks: James P.