RamsHorn-Livingston Sanctuary, NY Dee & Neil Pederson
Jul 10, 2003 17:25 PDT 

On the subject of the Catskill, NY region of the Hudson River, an
unusual and cool forest is the RamsHorn-Livingston Sanctuary:
http://www.scenichudson.org/parks/shparks/ramshorn/index.html

It is the largest tidal, freshwater swamp forest on the Hudson -
400+ acres. The mix of forest is interesting: northern white-cedar
[near a southern range margin in the Hudson Valley], eastern white
pine, swamp white oak, black gum, red maple, ash, etc. In some parts
of the forest no one tree dominates, according to a vegetation survey
by Spider Barbour.

Canoeing the streams through the forest reminded me a bit of being
in the Congaree. It has a southern feel. In fact, I got chiggers from
one of my visits there!

There aren't too many big trees, however. From the appearance of the
crowns of many trees here, I get a feeling the high water levels and
fluctuating water levels may limit tree size. The beaver are a big
limitation to the swamp white longevity and size these days.

However, the cedar ranged in age from 130-190 years. The Nyssa look
to be 200-400 years [the rings of this population of gum are the
worst Nyssa rings I've looked at to date. Crossdating, let alone age
determination, under the microscope is difficult]. The swamp white
oak range from 70-285 years. I did not get too closeto the center of
the old tree and it was experiencing significant suppression in the
early 1700s. 280+ years is approaching the maximum known age of ~300
years [according to Harlow].

It is hard to say if this forest has ever been harvested. Its
proximity to the Hudson and older population centers would make one
think it would have been logged in the past. Also, I did not core the
commercial species, except the cedar, so perhaps only pine was
removed in the past. The cedar are small now at 150+ years [< 2 feet
dbh]. They were definitely saplings in Cole's and Churches time.

However, if today's forest is representative of what this site is
capable of producing, it is hard to think much of the forest was ever
worth the effort of wetland logging. Winter logging, especially at
the end of the Little Ice Age, might make logging more profitable.
Charcoal production might have made logging worthwhile as well.


Neil
Re: Historic Hudson areas  David Yarrow
   Jul 10, 2003 21:55 PDT 
Re: Historic Hudson areas another site in the Hudson valley we have been exploring is the palmaghatt kill ravine in Minnewaska state park. the trees are not of exceptional heights, but are 300-500 years old. for photos and a written report of our third survey: 

http://www.championtrees.org/oldgrowth/    Palmaghatt3
there is a written report of our second survey, but no photos:
http://www.championtrees.org/oldgrowth/    MinnewaskaSP21109.htm 

this site is carefully protected by park staff. there are no trails and no publicity about this site, and the public is discouraged from hiking in the ravine.

David Yarrow
Turtle EyeLand Sanctuary
44 Gilligan Road, East Greenbush, NY 12061
518-477-6100


http://www.championtrees.org 
http://www.championtrees.org/oldgrowth/ 
http://www.championtrees.org/yarrow/