Pine Orchard

Pine Orchard	John Davis
	Feb 07, 2007 07:41 PST

Thanks much, Ron. I look forward to doing that ski myself (if ever this
winter we get enough snow), and I hope I'll be spared the sound of machines,
too.

It does appear that DEC wants to make the Pine Orchard trail part of one of
its snowmobile "community connectors". This could be particularly
problematic as the DEC has proposed in its recent (but pre-Spitzer)
snowmobile plan that "community connector" snowmobile trails would be widened
to 9 feet and groomed for speedier driving. Conservation groups will
probably oppose the "community connector" trails if they are to be widened
and groomed and if they bisect interior forest and/or sensitive habitats.

I'll plan to scout the two possible old-growth areas you mentioned and will
try to keep fellow ENTS informed of any possible threats or insults to them.
DEC is not accustomed to having to factor old-growth forest into its
planning, but they should; and ENTS could really help with this. Indeed,
some months back, Bob Leverett and Michael Kudish helped the Adirondack
Council make the case that the DEC should not be building a new snowmobile
trail through an area of Jessup River WF that has very large trees and some
probable "first growth", Michael said, after walking the area with us. That
issue is not yet decided, but conservationists have opposed DEC's snowmobile
plan in Jessup River WF with a lawsuit.

Thanks again
John

John Davis
Conservation Director
The Adirondack Council

From: "Ron Gonzalez"
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: TNC; Pine Orchard

Oh no, I hope the snowmobile trail to Pine Orchard doesn't get "improved"!
I skied it just last winter, and it's a nice, narrow little 'road' through
the woods. I didn't see another soul the January day I was there, not to
mention a machine. It would lose all its charm if it became a broad,
maintained snowmobile trail -- and it doesn't seem to me that it would be a
long enough run to be enough fun for snowmobilers anyway. Do the proposed
improvements call for widening of the trail past the big pines and the
beaver meadow down there? That would be a shame...
If memory serves, there are two sites in Wilcox Lake WF mentioned in Bob
Leverett's and Bruce Kershner's book "The Sierra Club Guide to Ancient
Forests of the Northeast" -- one is Pine Orchard, the other is a trail that
leads over a slope of Wilcox Mt that has a stand of primary growth sugar
maple.

- Ron Gonzalez

From: John Davis <jda-@adirondackcouncil.org>;
Sent: Feb 6, 2007 12:12 PM
To: ENTST-@topica.com
Subject: TNC; Pine Orchard

I share your concerns, as well as your kinder words, about TNC, Bob. I
think the Adirondack chapter is one of the best in the country; yet even
here, trying to work with them can occasionally prove frustrating. Still
thank goodness they have secured all the land they have!

If you or any other ENTS have specific information on Pine Orchard or any
other potential old-growth sites in Wilcox Lake Wild Forest (southeastern
Adirondacks), I'd be grateful to hear from you. The DEC has issued its
draft unit management plan for Wilcox Lake WF, and it leaves open a
snowmobile trail through Pine Orchard, as well as quite a few other
snowmobile trails through the unit. The Adirondack Council does not oppose
all snowmobile trails (would that we could!), but urges that they generally
be kept out of forest interiors and sensitive sites.

Thanks much
John

John Davis
Conservation Director

Re: TNC; Pine Orchard & Elders Grove Paul Smiths	Howard Stoner
	Feb 07, 2007 15:31 PST

John and others,
I visited Pine Orchard last June and have the following measurements:
White Pine 143.4' 12.2 cbh, 128' 15.4 cbh double stem at 12' from
ground,
140.4' 13.3 cbh, 134.9' 12.2 cbh, 132.0 10.9 cbh
White Ash 107.6' 7.0 cbh
A nice pocket of old growth. If the road is along the trail nearly all
of the biggest trees
would go in a 9ft swath, they are nearly all next to the trail.

Elders Grove at Paul Smiths College(12-15 acres)
Visited this grove over the past weekend and filled out the ten species
for a rucker index.
White Pine 160.4, Balsam Fir 95.6, Black Cherry 89.1, Red Spruce 87.0,
Red Maple 83.7,
Sugar Maple 81.4, Yellow Birch 79.4, Beach 59.5, White Cedar 54.6,
Eastern Hemlock 50.4
Rucker index 84.62

Howard

Re: TNC; Pine Orchard & Elders Grove Paul Smiths	Jess Riddle
	Feb 12, 2007 07:23 PST

Howard,

Thanks for the summary of the Elders Grove. 160' really is amazing
for a tree growing in that climate. The relative position of the
different species in the Rucker Index is completely different from
what I'm used to seeing in the South. I'm accustomed to seeing yellow
birch for a secondary canopy below taller hardwoods, not tower over
beech and hemlock.

Jess

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