MTSF black cherries   John Eichholz
  Mar 02, 2004 11:06 PST 

Bob, John, et. al:

That was a great walk Sunday. MTSF did its usual. A quick walk through
and you come across something special every time. First there was a
patch of 110' oak right on the road. Then we figured a 115 height to cbh
ratio on a 2.8' cbh oak. Then there was a 116.7' black cherry, which I
think is either #2 or #3 in all of MTSF.   Granted there is 140' class
pine all around there so it blends in.

But that's not why I am writing. I have just confirmed a pair of 140'+
white pine in Heath. I have measured them twice, today fairly
carefully. There are several in 130's as well. They are just across a
brook on the side of the road, but they are on private property so I
didn't go over to them.   Actually I think the property is for sale.

List of pines on Burnt Hill

name height times measured
#1 lower 143.5' 3x
#2 lower 137.9' 2x
#3 upper 129.5' 1x
#4 upper 122.0' 1x
#5 mid   138.2' 4x
#6 mid   131.9   1x
#7 mid   135.2' 4x
#8 mid   141.9' 2x

I then went over to Zoar Gap to try and nail down that 6.2' cbh black
cherry's height. While I was at it, I remeasured the other two
significant cherries nearby. Well, am I glad I did. The first tree I
measured was a 4.2' cbh on the edge of the middle stream cove. It
stands right next to the second, the 6.2' cbh one. Away a hundred feet
or so is the third, which is 4.8' cbh. Here are the height readings I

#1 117.9', 117.4'
#2 121.7', 120.9', 121.7'
#3 119.0', 118.8'

The best viewing was directly upstream from the tree. I used a 4' pole
to "see" over a rise. The highest tip on #2, which was measured three
times, pointed behind the leader, but it was consistently visible. The
Massachusetts record for black cherry is 121.9, so I hope someone else
can repeat my readings.

Exciting times, and it is still winter!

RE: MTSF black cherries   John Eichholz
  Mar 02, 2004 14:26 PST 

Sure. Start from the bridge over the Deerfield river at Zoar Gap, on
the north side of Clark mountain. As you approach the mountain, there
is a series of streams that meet and then flow into the Deerfield. They
come in from the right (West). There are three or four streams which
form two prominent arms or tongues of land between them. The cherries
are at the top of the left arm just below the rocky falls that make up
most of Clark mountain. Two are next to each other on the edge of the
stream bank and one is farther back in a flat area. By cbh comparison,
I think the #3 is the one already documented by Bob.
RE: MTSF black cherries   John Eichholz
  Mar 09, 2004 16:00 PST 

Bob, ENTS:

Today's catch at MTSF

I went back to Zoar gap today. My goal was to measure every black
cherry I could find, below the rocky falls, working over to the western
boundary of MTSF. I pretty much got them all in that direction. Next
will come the areas uphill and to the east. That should provide a
context to the 121' and 119' cherry found there. This is what I found:

species         height CBH
Black Cherry 112.60 5.1
Black Cherry 106.44 4.1
Black Cherry 104.83 3.9
Black Cherry 93.24 3.2
Black Cherry 99.68 3.9
Black Cherry 107.82 3.2 ht/diam 105.8
Black Cherry 108.79 5.3
Black Cherry 110.06 4.7
Black Cherry 110.48 4.2
Black Cherry 114.85 4.1
Black Cherry 107.95 5.1
Red Maple 115.67
Black Birch 108.33
Black Birch 105.03 4.9
Bit. Hickory 113.48 3.9

Four more black cherries over 110' puts the species in contention for
membership in the ten tallest species club at MTSF, alongside red maple.
Actually the tallest BC specimens edge out red maple by a few feet,
except for one RM at 122.4'.

The other tall MTSF black cherries are:

Black Cherry 121.70 6.2 might only be 120.5'+
Black Cherry 118.82 4.8*   119.2' by Bob Leverett
Black Cherry 117.25 4.2
Black Cherry 116.37 4 Todd mtn. near pine stands

All except one of the BC over 110' are in the Zoar gap area (so far).

I remeasured the champ BC and I could only get 120.5 today. The
lighting was different than before. I now have several readings from
120.5' to 120.9' and two at 121.7'.

Re: MTSF black cherries - recap   John Eichholz
  Mar 10, 2004 21:11 PST 

Gary, Bob, John:

I finished measuring the rest of the black cherry trees in the immediate
area of the 120' BC. There were only a couple BC above or to the east
of the main cluster, but many on the elevated flat area to the west.

The complete set of data is:

height class    species    m_hgt2    CBH
 90     Black Cherry     93.24    3.2
 90     Black Cherry     93.91    5.8
 95     Black Cherry     99.68    3.9
100    Black Cherry    104.83    3.9
105    Black Cherry    106.44    4.1
105    Black Cherry    107.82    3.2
105    Black Cherry    107.95    5.1
105    Black Cherry    108.79    5.3
110    Black Cherry    110.06    4.7
110    Black Cherry    110.44    6.6
110    Black Cherry    110.48    4.2
110    Black Cherry    112.60    5.1
110    Black Cherry    114.85    4.1
115    Black Cherry    117.25    4.2
115    Black Cherry    118.82    4.8
120    Black Cherry    121.70    6.2

I added a column for height class i.e. rounding down to 5' increments.
That does show a sort of bell-shaped distribution, with a median around
110'. The two 90' class trees were on opposite ends of the site, not in
the middle.

Additional readings today were:

height class    species    m_hgt2    CBH
  95      Black Birch       99.04      0
105      Black Birch      105.72      0
120      Sugar Maple    123.43    8.6
125      Sugar Maple    129.10    7.7
130     White Ash        134.02       0

The sugar maple were pretty old and very healthy.

Re: MTSF black cherries   John Eichholz
  Mar 10, 2004 21:12 PST 

That is what I meant, at least in most cases. Another factor is close
competition as in white pine stands, etc. You might be interested that
the black cherry with the 105 hgt/diam ratio was growing IN a stream

I have anecdotal evidence that MTSF gets significantly more rain than Mt
Peak, 3 miles away. My rain gauge often reads lower than the gauge at
Zoar outdoor as posted on their website. I'd like to see the HOBO setup

The color maps would be an awesome resource. I have thought before if I
could hover over a site I could pick out the tall trees pretty quick. I
only hope they are not good enough to measure the heights from -- then
I'd need another excuse to go out in the woods.
Re: MTSF black cherries - recap
  Mar 13, 2004 12:07 PST 

John, John, Gary, et al.:

I ran the MTSF Rucker index out to 20 iterations. In so doing, we ran out of trees for several species. We need more basswoods, beeches, bitternut hickories, shagbark hickories, black cherries, black birches, and bigtooth aspens. We need to locate a few more tall northern red oaks and eastern hemlocks and then we could easily go another 10 iterations. As it stands, if we gain depth in the above species, we can keep the index at around 115 for at least 30 iterations. Iterations out to 100 will drop the index to around 110 or 111. Ther 200th iteration would drop only slightly. Perhaps 110. The 300th iteration would likely be around 107. This would be for a combined area of about 650 acres. After 400 iterations, we would likely be around 105. The index would likely be between 104 and 105 for the 600th iteration. I think that the index can stay about 100 for at least 1,000 iterations. It may go far longer. The next great challenge is to compute the density of 100-foot tall trees in Mohawk's high growth acreage. I think that can be done by a fairly simple sampling system.