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TOPIC: Acadia National Park
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/d3e1ecdada209609?hl=en 
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== 1 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 6:59 am
From: dbhguru@comcast.net

ENTS,

Monica and I just returned from a 7-day trip to Maine. Part of our time was spent in Acadia National Park to include the separated portion on the Schoodic Peninsula. We also visited Deer Island, and several other scenic spots on the Maine coast. We found a marvelous campground that I'll describe in a separtae email and recommend to any Ent who wants to camp on the Maine relatively coast free from the crowds.

NPS/Todd M. Edgar
Eagle Lake is one of the park's Great Ponds.

I suppose that the diplomatic thing for me to do would be to limit my comments to our positive experiences, but Maine always presents me with a dilemma. There are two Maines - a good Maine and a bad Maine. The coast of Maine is a magical place. Rocky prominences, spruce-covered islands, and long stretches of coastline with relatively few dwellings make visits an unforgettable experiences. To be sure, the coastal land has experienced concentrated human activity for over two and a half centuries, but much of coastal Maine has retained a natural look. There are areas that are indeed very natural in terms of plant community development that has progressed uninterrupted for between one and two centuries and spots that have endured longer. I knew most of what one could expect from coastal plant communities, but one community caught me off guard.

NPS Photo

On Schoodic point, a 400-ft prominence, there is a community of dwarf Jack Pine and Red Spruce. I had been expecting to see dwarf Pitch Pine on Mount Desert Island, courtesy of my friend Tom Wessels, but not Jack Pine in the area. The brochures I had acquired that list tree species for Acadia plus the AMC trail guide didn't even list Jack Pine as a species on Acadia. Species distribution maps do show Jack Pine throughout Maine, but I hadn't seen those maps when I discovered the dwarf community. Jack Pine is also generously spread through the campground we stayed at, which is also on the Schoodic Peninsula, but not part of Acadia National Park. The associated lichen and moss community is extraordinary. Given that the Jack Pines are probably between 60 and 100 years old, the moss and lichen community may develop fast. I don't know.

On Deer Isle, I saw what is described in the literature as a coastal fog forest. Thick mats of lichen, liverwort, and moss have developed in probably under 100 years. In places, the ground cover looks older. I don't know how fast the mats develop. I wonder if Lee has data on the rates at which moss, lichenes, and liverworts develop on damp forest floors. The rock base is granite, of which there is plenty.

NPS Photo

I didn't spend any time trying to get a Ruckert Index for Acadia. It would be a miracle if it makes 80. Trees in the Acadia part of Maine struggle to make 75 feet. I did measure one White Pine in Acadia to 90.5 feet. The pine was conspicuously taller than anything else I saw. So rather than concentrate on trying to find what doesn't exist, I turned my attention to the dwarf communities, which are well represented. I observed dwarfed Red and White Spruce, Pitch Pine, and Jack Pine communities. Tom Wessels had once told me about the Pitch Pines when we were studying Mount Everett's dwarf community and wondering how rare Pitch Pine dwarf communities were.
At the start of the email, I mentioned two Maines. By contrast to the coast, interior Maine is a wreck. It is a worked-over landscape. Hundreds of thousands of acres have been hammered and re-hammered. The industrial lands are depressing in the extreme. The scrubby regrowth of pencil-sized trees characteristic of so much of Maine's regrowth forests provides little for an Ent to cheer about. Getting to and from the coast or the few sanctuaries of fairly decent forest is painful. I complained a lot on the trip up, but remained largely silent on the return journey. My wife Monica and our friend Marjorie had heard enough from me. Maine's forests suck!

I did buy a guide to the 50 best hikes in the Maine Mountains. In perusing the guide, I noted that the author understandably avoids making any derogatory remarks about logging, but frequently warns readers about logging trucks. Her descriptions are often of young regrowth forests. She describes little of interest in the way of forest scenes or big trees. Even so, she counts herslef as an absolute convert to Maine's Appalachians - better her than me, although Maine does have some attractive mountain scenery in addition to its well-known Mount Katadhin. Altogether there are 12 peaks listed for Maine by Peak Baggers at over 4,000 feet, with two additional summits that are questionable. Twelve is a safe number. Vermont has 5 summits over 4000 feet. New Hampshire has 48, and New York has 44 legitimate 4,000-footers. Old listings give 46 peaks over 4000 feet for the Adirondacks and two for the Catskills. But New York's legitimate tot al is 46. Beyond the 4000-footers, Maine has one
peak over 5000 feet, Katahdin at 5267 feet. It is in some respects the king of Appalachian mountains. Its precipitous knife edge ridge is famous among Appalachian Trail walkers. Elsewhere, New York has two summits over 5,000 and the rest are in New Hamphsire's White Mountains, which has a total of 7 peaks over 5000.

Bob

== 2 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 8:02 am
From: James Parton


Bob,

Thanks for the insight on Maine. I never realized the forests were in
such poor shape there. I always pictured it as a northern mecca,
pristine and nearly untouched. A century ago, here in the forests of
the Western North Carolina it was terrible. Rampant unchecked logging
brought many forests, such as what would become Pisgah nearly to
ruins. In many areas any tree larger than 12 inches dbh was cut at the
stump. 80 years ago Graveyard Fields, Black Balsam Knob and Sam Knob
burned with intense fires that were related to logging activity. Every
time I ride into Pisgah National Forest I find it amazing on how much
the forest has healed itself. Outside of the lack of old-growth in
many areas there are still two major losses. American Chestnut. It
exists in a stuggle with the blight and trees of any size are scarce.
Hemlock. Both Eastern and Carolina are dead or dying. Anymore only
treated trees are really green. I have watched the hemlock go from
green in 2003 to it's current dead and dying state in 2008.

Nice report on Maine. The coast sounds like a good place. I always
pictured Jack Pine resembling Pitch or Virginia pine.

James Parton

== 3 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 9:37 am
From: dbhguru@comcast.net


James,

From a distance, the Jack Pine looks more like the Virginia Pine than the Pitch Pine. Interestingly, for me, Jacks have an "endearing scraggly look"- if that makes any sense at all. As a southern counterpart, Will Blozan likes the Virginia Pine, another conpetitor in the scraggly contest. Oh, what did I just say? Contest? Yes, it would be a great contest - northerly scraggliness pitted against the southern counterpart. Cast your votes, folks. Virgina versus Jack. Votes will be counted up until May 31st, 11:59PM. Then Jack Pine, uh, er, the winner of the contest will be announced. But maybe I've jumped the gun? Any deep South entries? Will Fell? What's the height of deep South pine scraggliness? Slash?

With respect to Maine's forests and the sometimes depicted aesthetic appeal, sorry folks, it ain't there. Maine's forests are continuously hammered by logging, and the regeneration, such as it is, must grow in a cold, damp climate. Unless given a lot of care in a forest management sense, Maine's woodlands don't have much chance to develop an appealing, and from what I see, there isn't much of a chance of forest management turning things around. The redneck mentality rules. Local foresters blather about robust growth and good management, but it is mostly in their dreams.
Were there once noble forests in the misnamed White Pine state? I'm unsure. Pinus strobus did make a decent showing and I expect there were stands that included some impressive trees. But I think that it takes centuries for truly fine forests to develop in northern states like Maine, and once gone, they're gone for a long, long time. Old photographs that show log rolls and jams in the streams don't reveal any treasure troves of large trees. So, in absence of proof to the contrary, my pronouncement is that with a few exceptions, Maine's original forests were pretty ordinary.

By contrast to the seedy regrowth I saw in Maine, southern forests can bounce back more quickly, at least in terms of tree size. Thinking of southern mountain coves with young tulips soaring to heights of 80 to 100 feet in 50 years and sometimes less, getting that kind of growth in Maine has a very low probability. So what are the people seeing who boast about Maine's forests? Beats the hell out of me! I think they are in love with an idea, the idea of a trackless, northern wilderness stocked with plenty of game where one can still experience a kind of pioneer feeling. I admit to wanting to experience that feeling, in Maine, but alas, I then have to open my eyes.

In the few areas of Maine that have retained a natural forest covering for several centuries, i.e. old growth, the woodlands do take on an attractive boreal look. Spruce and fir dominate. You expect to see a moose at every pond. From the touted scenic vistas of the hiking guides, the mountains and ridges, lakes, and bogs have a special appeal decked in their northern forest garb. The pointed spires of the spruce have an impact. But to hold on to the feeling, you have to see the forest just as an undifferentiated backdrop of shades of green. If you cast a steely eye toward individual trees - forget it. Are there exceptions? Well, Big Reed Pond is a 5,000-acre old growth forest TNC property northwest of Baxter State Park that provides us with a window to the past. People who travel there are usually impressed, but compared to more southerly old growth, Big Reed Pond is pretty ordinary. It certainly is important for what it represents ecologically (a scientific laboratory) rather than how it appears visually. For those hunting the whoppers, Big Reed's trees aren't in the same universe as average stuff in the Great Smoky Mountains NP.

Well, enough complaining about Maine's diminuitive forestscape. Monica and I plan to return to the Maine coast. We want to spend time searching Acadia's forest communities of the elfin class. They have great charm. I'd also like to return to do more measuring in the Ordway Pine stand in Norway, Maine, home to Maine's tallest tree - so far as we've thus far determined. There is also a stand of pines called the Hermitage Pines that probably merits a visit.
I'll conclude this second Maine communication by observing that if we're going to get good data on Maine's forest sites in terms of Rucker Indices, and individual tree volume, ENTS will have to bite the bullet. Unless we can recruit and train someone in Maine or New Hampshire, guess who's elected. That's just the way it is.

Bob

== 4 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 10:17 am
From: Gary Smith


Bob/ENTS,

I reckon Sand pine, pinus clausa, might do for a suitable Deep South
entrant into the low end pine sweepstakes.

Did you see much hemlock in Maine?

gs

== 5 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 11:11 am
From: DON BERTOLETTE


Bob-
While I've heard UMASS Forestry Department disparaged, my recall from my time there would point out that even without the private industry logging practices there, Maine's balsam fir/spruce forests were subject to cyclic disturbances (if memory serves me, along the line of 100-150 years) of balsam fir pathogens, noted as far back as the mid to late 1970's (Sprugel, D.G. 1974. Natural disturbance and ecosystem responses in wave-regenerated Abies balsamea forest. Ph.D. dissertation, Yale University, New Haven, CT, and later a similar paper by Susan Bicknell, who went on to become Dept. Chair at Humboldt State Univ., my alma mater too..:>). This would have precluded any widespread opportunities for 'ancient' forests to have developed.

However, if you're headed towards Maine's coast, consider going sea kayaking (seriously, a very pleasant, easy to pick up, wonderfully pacifying recreational pursuit) some of Maine's Island Trail networks, where islands are close enough to kayak from campsite to campsite...the added bonus would be more robust forests that may have been more resistant to the ravages of the forest pathogens across the rest of Maine...
-DonRB

== 6 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 11:18 am
From: dbhguru@comcast.net


Gary,

No, not much hemlock. Central Maine and farther north is truly spruce country.

Bob

== 7 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 11:35 am
From: ForestRuss@aol.com

Don:

I think that the spruce budworm has factored in significantly in the cycle
you mentioned.

Russ

== 8 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 12:00 pm
From: dbhguru@comcast.net


Don,

I presume your reference to the disparaging of the UMASS Forestry Dept is taken from "The Joe Zorzin Book of Classic Rants". I think on that topic we both best let sleeping dogs lie. BTW, Joe's alive and well, ranting in somewhat moderated tones, with occasional skyward flares, about all the customary topics. That's our Joe.

I have little doubt that Maine's inland forests historically had to contend with natural agents of disturbance that made large areas susceptible to fire, esepcially after outbreaks of beetles. Today, I presume the Boundary Waters forests of northern Minnesota give us a partial picture of what the natural disturbance regime of central and northern Maine would have been like. Lee may have comments to make about my comparison. I could be off base. Regardless, I would bet that significant acreages escaped the fires to reach far greater average forest age. Still, the general model of forests proposed by the researchers likely holds. I would guess areas in the Canadian boreal forest could be used for further comparison.

Although I didn't say so specifically in my last email, an important point about the treatment of interior Maine's forests isn't that they should all be left alone across the expanses of what would be mostly balsam fir and red, white, and black spruce, but that the Maine forests could be managed a heck of a lot better than what I see happening. The countless acres of seedy regrowth that spring from a continuously logged/high graded landscape and the giant industrial monoculture paradigm reflects an on-the-ground reality that belies the usual promotional descriptions of Maine's forests. The reality is depressing to say the least.

Bob

== 9 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 1:08 pm
From: DON BERTOLETTE


Bob-
So, have I piqued your curiosity on sea kayaking? It is such an effortless glide, it's almost sedentary!
-DonRB

== 10 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 1:05 pm
From: DON BERTOLETTE


Russ-
A big ten-four on that!
-DonRB

== 12 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 2:48 pm
From: "Edward Frank"


Bob,

Another excellent description. I am curious as to how you have assigned the dwarf Jack Pines an age of 60 to 100 years. With species dwarfed by climate extremes, I would expect that aging them would be very difficult and potentially unreliable, short of counting tree rings.

Also I wanted to comment on the ages of the moss and lichen mats on Deer Island. It is possible that they may develop in a relatively short period of time, the real question to my mind is how long these mats have persisted? Once they reach a certain stage do they persist for long periods? Their actual age of the mats may be dramatically different than the time it took them to form. What factors might disrupt the life of the mats? If it is in a coastal fog forest, then fires would be limited and infrequent.

Ed

== 14 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 3:26 pm
From: dbhguru@comcast.net


Ed,

I guessed on the ages of the Jack Pines. I had seen pines in that age class before and made a mental comparion. I should have said the ages appear to be between 60 and 100 years, but more information is needed.
Yes, I am very curious about how long it takes lichen and moss communities such as I saw to develop.

Bob

-

== 15 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 7:56 pm
From: James Parton


Bob,

I never have seen a true Jack pine but by photos that I have seen they
can be pretty ratty. I guess I gotta vote for the Virginia, since it
is the one I know. The Table Mountain pine can be pretty scruffy too.
Somehow they remind me of the Bristlecone Pine. I don't know why.
Maybe it is because most of the Table Mountain Pines I have seen are
at higher altitudes. Often on cliffs. They have a " bristly " cone
too.

James P.

== 16 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 9:41 pm
From: "Edward Frank"


Bob,

I have a historical snippet from Maine on the website:

Country of the Pointed Firs, Sarah Orne Jewett, written in 1896:
--Mrs. Todd speaking to her companions as they travel up-country Maine on the way to a family reunion.--
'"There's sometimes a good hearty tree growin' right out of the bare rock,
out o' some crack that just holds the roots;" she went on to say, " right
on the pitch o' one 'o them bare stony hills wehre you can't seem to see a
wheel-barrowful o' good earth in a place, but that tree'll keep a green top
in the driest summer. You lay your ear down to the growth an' you'll hear
a little stream runnin'. Every such tree has got it own livin' spring;
there's folks made to match 'em."'--

Ed Frank

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 4:14 pm
From: "Edward Frank"

Bob,

I am curious how long these individual moss or lichens live in the coastal fog forest environment.

Ed

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 5:17 pm
From: dbhguru@comcast.net

Ed,

I don't know. However, I do love the look of them. They cover up the ground, rocks, logs, etc. and give the forest a timeless look. According to Lee, they can establish themselves to a state of considerable luxuriness and depth in a few decades when in a wet environment. What I say is bully for lichens and mosses.

Bob

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 29 2008 11:56 am
From: JamesRobertSmith


My wife and I are headed to Acadia the first week of September. I
climbed Katahdin a few years ago and found it a rewarding experience.

You're right, though. The interior of Maine is an over-forested wreck.
The timber companies run everything. Millinocket, which I had supposed
was a kind of idealized rural town surrounded by Nature, was a horrid
mill town. I couldn't get over what a nasty place it is. Alas!

I climbed Mount Washington last year. By foot, not by car. Only
wankers drive to the top when you can hike.

The strange and wonderful thing about New England peaks is the
treeline. In New Hampshire it's about 3500 feet. So the White
Mountains are this huge expanse of alpine tundra. It was a great
experience, until I got to the summit of Mount Washington and found a
parking lot packed with autos and a freaking coal-burning train making
all kinds of horrid racket.

Thankfully, Katahdin is the middle an enormous wilderness and no cars
or trains to the top. It's scary hike across the Knife's Edge! What a
trip!

Bob.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 29 2008 12:43 pm
From: DON BERTOLETTE


Ed-
An absolutely delightful quote!
-DonRB

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 29 2008 1:13 pm
From: DON BERTOLETTE


Bob-
In a prior response to your Acadia post, I'd gotten around to suggesting that you might find more undisturbed forests on the islands off of the Maine coast...if recall serves me, there are what was referred to as Maine Coastal Island Kayak trails, where you could sea kayak from island to island (several within a day, if in a hurry) by sea kayak.
I had a sea kayak (and Grumman 17' canoe) back in the 90's when in Massachusetts, and if time had permitted, we'd have taken the sea kayak to Maine to do the 'Island' thing. We have loved our sea kayaking times, and have encouraged many to try it...the most inexperienced city bound novice can pick up basic skills in less than an hour, and if guided in groups, could be out on open water safely the same day. We've frequently rented kayaks since then, with friends, who were able to comfortably paddle for four to six hours in a half-day guided tour, with NO fatigue...sea kayaks are amazingly efficient transport across lakes and relatively calm ocean waters...probably 3 to 4 times as efficient as canoes.
-Don

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 29 2008 4:39 pm
From: dbhguru@comcast.net


Don,

I am definitely interested in the sea kayak. How does it differ from other designs?

Bob

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, May 29 2008 10:47 pm
From: DON BERTOLETTE


Bob-
There's a fairly narrow range of shapes, materials, and purposes for kayaks...lately, for those in tropical climes, are 'sit-on-top-of kayaks that are constructed to allow water passing over the concave tops to exit through holes in the bottom (placed in a manner that keeps the outlet above water), and are easy to get on and off of (say you were interested in snorkeling, etc.

For 'sit-inside-of kayaks', there are foldable sea kayaks, inflatable sea kayaks, and hard shell sea kayaks. The folding types (Klepper, Nautiraid, Featherlite, Folbot, and others) tend towards convenience in transport, but range between low carrying capacity (Featherlight) to high volume (Folbot). Owners tend to be very careful with them as they can be trashed at rocky landings. The hard shell sea kayak (you may recall that Peter Dunwiddie's parents were travelling with an Eddyline sea kayak that broke down into three parts) is the most efficient in passage through water, tend to be as narrow as your butt will allow, and long to increase stability and flotation. The hard shell and folding sea kayaks usually will have a rudder system allowing steerage with foot pedals. All kayaks usually employ kayak paddles which have their blades or spoons at both ends of the paddle shaft (as opposed to canoe paddles which have a handle at one end and a blade/spoon at the other). The kayak paddle has the advangage of having an end ready to go in the water as the other end is just coming out of water...much more efficient. The weights of these craft range from 40 to 75 pounds, able to carry from 400 to 750 pounds depending on conditions. THe folding and hard shell sea kayaks come as solo or tandem models.

Major advantage of sea kayaks over canoes? Canoes will break even good marriages up, while sea kayakers have a much better chance of staying together...usually you'd find the lady in the front, the guy in the rear...the guy follows the lady's paddling rhythm, and usually runs the rudder. Sea kayaks have better back support. Sea kayak paddles can be 'feathered' (blades 30 degrees off of same plane, to minimize turning of shaft to diminish wind resistance of blade). I can paddle a sea kayak all day long before fatiguing, but will tire quickly employing J-strokes, C-strokes, parries, draws, etc., unless its the last day of a 30 day trip.

Sea kayaks have decks and spray skirts which keep rain, paddle splash, waves from entering sea kayak interior, whereas canoes may employ floatation bags to displace water getting into canoe, or dry bags. Sea kayaks usually have much less wind resistance because of the decks.

Like canoes, the hull configuration determines initial and secondary stability, whether V, shallow V, round,etc.

That's it for off the top of my head...
-Don

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Acadia National Park
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/d3e1ecdada209609?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, May 30 2008 5:06 am
From: Randy Brown



I was in main in the early 90's and got a short tour of a logging
operations. I was shocked to see so many trees, ~1 diameter across
the base with but rot and they told me the spruce budworm outbreaks of
the 70's weakened the trees and made them susceptible to decay. I
also noticed, for lack of a better word, how ragged and dare I say
mangy the forest looked in general. On one hand I'm kinda happy my
intuition was correct, but on the other...

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, May 29 2008 8:19 pm
From: Matt Noone


Bob,

First off - it is about time that Maine has gotten mention in ENTS
posts.
While I agree with you that Maine's forest are not in great shape, I
can not go without saying something positive about Maine's forest.
Number one, there is nowhere else in the Northeast or probably the
East where you can completely escape from development and people for
millions of acres. The North Maine woods are a unique feature in our
landscape. I would like to see long term management practices in
place, but on the other hand what is here beats development. Are
there any states with a forest management, land ownership policy that
doesn't change every 2-4 years? I think the statistic is the average
acre in Maine changes landowners every 7 years.
Currently Maine has more lands under conservation easements than any
other state in America. What these conservation easements will mean
in the future will be interesting. This could be a step in the right
direction.
Also Maine's interior forests are often thought of as a spruce/fir
forest type. I believe that is how Maine was historically, but
current harvesting practices are promoting a fir/hardwood forest. The
spruce component has been dramatically reduced and hardwood component
dramatically increased.
Likely setting us up for the next spruce bud worm outbreak.

Matt

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, May 30 2008 5:27 am


Matthew,

Maine has received some attention in the past, though not much. The biggest obstacle is that we don't have anyone in Maine or New Hampshire who has our passion for measuring trees. I've done my best to cover New Hampshire but get to Maine only infrequently. John Knuerr covered the pine stand on Bowdoin College and I covered the Ordway Pines and now will be covering some of the coastal forests.

I did do some individual tree measuring in small picturesque town of Blue Hill. The best (biggest and tallest) species I measured were American Elms - beautiful trees. Circumferences were 9 to 11 feet and heights were 77 to 86 feet. I also measured the best of what I could fine of the red spruce on Deer Isle. I got some handsome trees up to around 75 feet with one tree at 78. This was more than I was expecting, so I was content.

Bob

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, May 30 2008 5:35 am
From: dbhguru@comcast.net


Don,

Thanks. Monica is an excellent canoist. So canoes will stay part of the picture, but wtaching kayakers has always held fasciantion for me. The down side for me has been a persisent image of them flipping and staying flipped while the occupant slowly fills up with H2O. Not a good mental image to hold onto.

Bob

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, May 30 2008 7:09 am
From: James Parton


Bob & Don,

I have two lake kayaks. Both hand made. Both were made by dad and a
friend of his. They are constructed using a cedar frame, which dad cut
using his bandmill. Vinyl is stretched over the frame and sealed. The
" hole " to sit in is larger and more oblong than most river kayaks so
you can fit fishing tackle into so you can comfortably fish. The
bottom of the boak has a wooden cedar seat built in and dad's boat has
been improved to have a folding backrest on the seat. Life cushions
make the seats more comfortable to sit in for long periods of time.
One was made for my cousin that has foam installed inside the vinyl
( PVC ) hull around the frame, to increase boyancy. He is quite a
heavy fellow. Both of my kayaks are about 10 feet long. I am sure they
could be made larger. One is white and the other pine green.

James Parton.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, May 30 2008 9:37 am
From: DON BERTOLETTE


James-
One of the first shared outings with my wife now of some 20 years was in my Folbot on Southeastern Kentucky lakes...graduating from day trip outings, we went on to enjoy Kentucky's boat-in only state campgrounds, and later on as we moved west, sea kayaking in along the Pacific side of Baja California...the taut sky blue deck when tapped, drummed out our heartbeat when we anticipated encounters with gray whales gathering at Bahia Magdalena (their winter 'resort').

Up here in Alaska, we see occasional homemade kayaks, wooden beauties that must receive infinite care, never touching our rocky shores. For a number of years, and maybe still, Folbot had assemble your own, non-folding models that sound much like your family's home made ones...they're such a joy!
-Don

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, May 30 2008 9:47 am
From: DON BERTOLETTE


Bob-
I think we're two clever lucky guys who learned all we know about canoeing from our spouses! We're destined to stay happily married!!
Re your persistent image of heads upside down in the water, knocking rocks around, I too share your concerns...but those are the thrill seeking, extreme sports, white water kind of kayakers.
Note that I tried in my previous post to use the phrase 'sea kayaks' at every mention. Sea kayaks are much more stable, and seldom are 'eskimo rolled', like white water kayakers do. 'Wet water exits' are what was taught in my earlier training, but in the years since, I've had no occasion to exit a kayak upside down...I have had occasions to use our Folbot for snorkeling platform, with some effort at graceful movements ("Scuppers" are one of the best for that, they're the 'sit-on-top-of' kayaks I mentioned earlier).
I'd encourage you to try sea kayaks in a controlled environment your first time, like a guided day trip, with a short training/safety session...reconnect with Dunwiddie and see if his folks are still sea kayaking and what they think, they were senior citizens then, I'll bet they're still paddling about!
-Don