Seven Sisters Live Oak

Seven Sisters Live Oak, LA

Larry

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 6 2007 9:40 am
From: dbhguru

Larry,

OMG!! 47' 9" That's incredible. Hopefully, the time I'm spending developing the modeling methodology with the macroscope 25/45, the Criterion RD1000, and the TruPulse 360 will allow us to model a complex tree. I hope Monica and I can visit you next late summer or early fall.

Bob

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 6 2007 9:46 am
From: James Parton

Larry,

What a tree! I love Live Oaks, you can't get no prettier of a tree.

James P.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 6 2007 3:30 pm
From: "Will Blozan"

Larry,

Remember, each stem would have to be 400-500 years old. Do they look that
old? How big was the largest stem?

I would like to see a new National Champion; i.e. a SINGLE stemmed tree make
the list. If ever AF could hold up one of their "rules" this tree would be
tops on the list.

Will

Without a sample its hard to really know. I agree with you on the single stem.
We all have talked about having two categories. At least I know its
not 1000 like most people seem to believe.

Larry

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The National Champion Live Oak, The Seven Sisters
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/aa1b72483d68ffae?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 7 2007 8:22 pm
From: edfrank@comcast.net

Larry,

According to the definitions we are using in ENTS, and the ones described by American Forests, if a stem of the tree has a separate pith at ground level, even if it is merged with another stem, it is considered to be a separate tree. The girth should be measured at 4.5 feet ifm separate, or immediately above the merger if the merge is higher than 4.5 feet.

I agree with the idea that multiple stems that are merged should not be compared to single stem trees in terms of girth. Each of those stems would have had time to widen at a fast rate independantly before they became merged. Two two foot diameter tres that merge would have a greater girth than would a single stem tree groing in the same place of the same age.

On the other hand, I do not believe that each of the individual stems of a multi-trunk tree are actually equivalent to a single tree. They share the same root system, they share the same air-space, the same light, and to a degree they may share the proceeds of the photosythetic process. I think, as I have said many times before, that a multi-trunked tree should be in a separate class of its own in which the girth of the fused stems would be counted, the number of stems, the diameter of each individual stem whether or not it was merged, and the crown spread of the muti-trunk entity, including those stem not yet merged into the main trunk.

The need is to figure out how to diferentiate a multi-trunk tree, from a copice, a grove, or one of the hundred acre masses of aspens, for example, that are genetic clones that sprouted from extended root systems.

The Seven Sisters Oak, from the photographs is clearly a multi-trunked tree, with each of teh major stems having its own pith at ground level. By their own rules, American Forests should not accept this as a national champion tree. The stem with the combined largest girth, height, and spread is what should be counted by those rules, and by the definitions ENTS is using. I am happy to accept the girth of the trunk mass at 4.5 feet for a listing of multi-trunked trees, so long as it is noted that it is a multi-trunked tree. This would be the largest known in eastern North America.

Ed Frank

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 8 2007 2:32 pm
From: Gary Smith

If anyone ever makes it over to Lafayette, LA, there is a magnificent
live oak on the grounds of the Cathedral of St John the Evangelist
church. I reckon this tree to be at least 250-300 years old. One of
the most impressive live oaks I've ever seen.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 8 2007 3:07 pm
From: dbhguru

Larry,

Yes, that makes a world of sense - more than the silly option of measuring the largest of the multiple trunks if they split below 4.5 feet. That so understates the impact of the tree.

Bob

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 8 2007 4:24 pm
From: Steve G

ENTS-

With all the discussion regarding single versus multi-stemmed trees, I
guess it's fortunate that banyans aren't natives.

Should the typical habit of the tree species come into play when
single/multi stems are considered for record trees? It seems like
many(most?) large live oaks appear to be multi-stemmed, with
relatively fewer single stemmed individuals of large size.

Steve

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 8 2007 5:38 pm
From: edfrank@comcast.net

Steve,

When my computer gets back, I am going to add a section for multi-trunked trees. Whether a tree has a single stem or multiple stems really seems to depend on the history of that particular tree for most species. If the tree is in an active area, such as a floodplain for species like silver maple, the tree tends to get broken and sprout multiple stems. In the exact same area, if by chance it isn't broken off early in its life, there are specatacular single stemmed trees. I think it is appropriate that they should be counted on both lists. depending on the habit of that individual.

A second major category of multi-trunked trees are those that sprout from trees that have fallen over. Question People - I have seen many examples of trees that are fallen with vertical branches forming new trunks - Lee has talked about white cedars forming massies by this process. Are there oher species that put out roots from trunks lyng on the ground? What about sycamore and Silber maple?

Should their typical habit a factor in determining record status? I think so, but if separate lists are maintained that isn't a problem. It is only if you tried to mix the two together that such a consideration would come into play.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 8 2007 6:18 pm
From: dbhguru

Steve,

A few years ago, I started paying more attention to the forms taken by the trees I saw dominating wetlands. Coppiced silver maples were often the rule instead of the exception. These trees experience damage around or just above the root collar during periods of flooding or freezing. The coppice form of these trees needs to be taken seriously. Cottonwood is another species that has a similar history. Then there is the situation of two distinctly separate trees growing together. So, we actually have 3 situations to deal with.

Bob

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