Alabama Champion Hickories

Alabama Champion Hickories

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TOPIC: New Member
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/bb417919a799b541?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 3 2008 8:09 pm
From: major

ENTS,

I am a new member to the group and recently made the Alabama Champion
Tree list with the newly recognized Shagbark Hickory Champion. I now
know why your group is so passionate about your mission. I discovered
in dealing with the Director of the Alabama Champion Tree program just
how prone to errors these official lists can be. He told me that he
had another Shagbark Hickory that had been nominated but did not meet
the nomination deadline. He stated that this tree had been on the
National Big Tree list since 1997 as the Champion Carolina Hickory and
that it was located in the same county as my tree. He stated that he
was contacted by a representative from the national Big Tree list and
they wanted him to recognize this Carolina Hickory on the Alabama list
as the champion. He refused to do so since it had never been measured
by an Alabama Forestry employee and thus had never been recognized on
the Alabama list.

The tree was bumped off of the 2008 National Big
Tree list due to the 10 yr. re-measure requirement and the owner did
not get it in to that organization in time to maintain its champion
status. The Alabama Director stated that the measurements that they
wanted him to use to be recognized as the Alabama Champion listed the
tree height at 127' instead of 150' which was the figure that had been
posted on the National List since 1997. I told him after reading
entries from the ENTS website, I knew that this was not that
uncommon. I now have very little faith in the National Big Tree
list. I would love for someone from ENTS to measure my Shagbark and
compare it to the measurements of the Alabama Forestry Service. I
will say that they do attempt to do it right in my opinion. I do
agree with ENTS, if we are going to measure these trees and keep
official lists, they need to be as accurate as possible. I look
forward to further discussions with the group.

sm

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 4 2008 3:53 am
From: "Will Blozan"

Welcome!

And yes, welcome to the quagmire of big tree headaches!

Jess Riddle and I measured the Carolina hickory you are discussing (I think
it is the same one). I am not sure if it was AL State Forestry who measured
it to 150' but no way! Here is the link:

http://www.nativetreesociety.org/fieldtrips/alabama/red_mountain/red_mountai
n.htm

I would love to measure your shagbark- what are the listed dimensions? Any
photos?

Will

Will F. Blozan
President, Eastern Native Tree Society
President, Appalachian Arborists, Inc.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 4 2008 7:13 am
From: major

Thanks for the welcome Will. Brian Hendricks who is the director of
the Big Tree Program here in Alabama did not know anything about the
Carolina Hickory in Gallant and stated that they had never measured it
nor had it ever been nominated for the Alabama program. I am glad you
and Jess have measured it and hopefully it will regain its National
Champion status with the new measurements. I don't know much about
these trees but when I saw the height listed on the past national
register at 150', I immediately thought this must be a mistake. The
tree on my property is a beautiful specimen and the state measured it
at: 92", 119', and 68 spread. I had measured it myself with my
limited knowledge and metal tape measure and put it at: 96", 130', and
75'. I guess the owner will always think it is bigger than it
actually is. Anyway, it was good enough to be declared the Champion
Shagbark in Alabama for 2008. Let me know when you can make it down
to measue it. I would be honored. I will try and post some photo's
for you. sm

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 4 2008 7:55 am
From: "Will Blozan"

Sounds like a nice tree!

Jess and I measured some slightly larger ones at 89" cbh X 140' tall in
Brascher Woods and 114" cbh X 139' tall on the Fitzhugh Tract. We didn't
measure spread but they were HUGE!

Will F. Blozan
President, Eastern Native Tree Society
President, Appalachian Arborists, Inc.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 4 2008 8:05 am
From: "Will Blozan"

Two more nice shagbarks in AL:

77" cbh X 131'
82" cbh X 140'

Both on Flint Creek in the Bankhead Wilderness.

Will F. Blozan
President, Eastern Native Tree Society
President, Appalachian Arborists, Inc.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 4 2008 8:19 am
From: dbhguru@comcast.net

Barry(?),

I would also like to welcome you to ENTS. I won't repeat any of the standard promotional pitch that one or more of us usually make. Our website master, Ed Frank, has put tons of information out on the site that says in all.

I will note that ENTS has a long history of trying to put truth into the big tree numbers. I would like to think that we are making headway on the tree measurement accuracy problem, but Rome wasn't built in a day. I expect we'll be at the task for years. After all, there is no penalty of any sort for badly mismeasured trees. Consequently, American Forests continues to get away with publishing a document literally riddled with errors and promoting it as though the errors were not there. I doubt their policy will change any time soon. In the interim, we'll push on with our work to perfect the art and science of tree measuring and will always warmly welcome aboard new members. So again, welcome aboard.

Bob

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 4 2008 12:23 pm
From: major

Thanks again Will and Bob,

Sounds to me that my tree may or may not be the champion for long. I
have been able to educate myself a little though and Brian at the
state office did tell me that if the tree you reference in Brascher
Woods(I still do not know where this is located) is indeed a Carolina
Hickory(? scientific name) that mine will still be the champion
shagbark(carya ovata). He was not certain that the Champion Shellbark
in the Hayes Preserve was indeed a shellbark and not a shagbark, so I
offered to check it out. I go by this area weekly going to Huntsville
and I educated myself enough to be able to tell the difference between
a shellbark and shagbark. The tree in Hayes is indeed a shellbark(7
leaf pattern) and mine is a shagbark(5 leaf pattern). I understand to
differentiate between a Carolina and a Shagbark is much more
difficult. I hope for my own selfish reasons that the trees you
reference are of the Carolina species. Sounds like the ones in the
Bankhead Wilderness are bigger than my tree also if they are carya
ovata. It is all interesting and fun to me either way. Again, I look
forward to more discussion and educational opportunities for me.
Thanks

Scott(first name is Barry but I go by my middle name)

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